MTT advice for bubbleplayers

Hiya, MTT players. I just min-cashed in a rakeback freeroll that fortunately gave my non-depositing bankroll a nice little boost. However, it was a min-cash, and not a max-cash. If you could tell one thing to someone looking to find leaks in their MTT game, when you know they're someone who can comfortably make it to the bubble area and sometimes min-cash, sometimes bust a few spots short of min-cash, but rarely do better, what would it be?

(and since I have to have a small brag in this otherwise self-deprecating post, I am a non-depositor and have built comfortable rolls from nothing, gosh-dangit. However, when it comes to these freerolls, I generally tend to find myself shortstacking for the bubble play instead of big-stacking and bullying the wimps like me. Help me realize the point to loosen up, and how to take risks in appropriate spots with your general and broad advice.)

((Min-cash was $21, in a field of 252 that paid 27, and I went out 27th))

(((First was $825!! Ugh!!)))

swrittenb said:

Hiya, MTT players. I just min-cashed in a rakeback freeroll that fortunately gave my non-depositing bankroll a nice little boost. However, it was a min-cash, and not a max-cash. If you could tell one thing to someone looking to find leaks in their MTT game, when you know they're someone who can comfortably make it to the bubble area and sometimes min-cash, sometimes bust a few spots short of min-cash, but rarely do better, what would it be?

(and since I have to have a small brag in this otherwise self-deprecating post, I am a non-depositor and have built comfortable rolls from nothing, gosh-dangit. However, when it comes to these freerolls, I generally tend to find myself shortstacking for the bubble play instead of big-stacking and bullying the wimps like me. Help me realize the point to loosen up, and how to take risks in appropriate spots with your general and broad advice.)

((Min-cash was $21, in a field of 252 that paid 27, and I went out 27th))

(((First was $825!! Ugh!!)))

Click to expand...

Are you stealing enough when the antes come in? That would be my first question. You need to identify the tight and timid players with medium stacks as your targets and steal from them whenever you can, either by observation of with a HUD. If you don't, your stack will just bleed away.

If you're having problems building a stack before the antes kick in, look for spots where you can play multi-way pots in position with implied odds hands, such as small pairs, suited aces, and others than can flop a huge hand. Be careful not to spew too much though-- i.e. don't get carried away with small, unsuited gappers, baby flushes, etc. But in general, these types of hands are far more valuable in this phase of the tournament, whereas big cards usually favor the late phases.

Hopefully this is some good food for thought

swrittenb said:

Hiya, MTT players. I just min-cashed in a rakeback freeroll that fortunately gave my non-depositing bankroll a nice little boost. However, it was a min-cash, and not a max-cash. If you could tell one thing to someone looking to find leaks in their MTT game, when you know they're someone who can comfortably make it to the bubble area and sometimes min-cash, sometimes bust a few spots short of min-cash, but rarely do better, what would it be?

(and since I have to have a small brag in this otherwise self-deprecating post, I am a non-depositor and have built comfortable rolls from nothing, gosh-dangit. However, when it comes to these freerolls, I generally tend to find myself shortstacking for the bubble play instead of big-stacking and bullying the wimps like me. Help me realize the point to loosen up, and how to take risks in appropriate spots with your general and broad advice.)

((Min-cash was $21, in a field of 252 that paid 27, and I went out 27th))

(((First was $825!! Ugh!!)))

Click to expand...

The only way I get passed "just cashing" is if I get a big chip lead early and start swallowing up the short stacks. Basically, I'll limp in a lot of flops that aren't raised early on in the tourney - you'll be surprised how many people like to slow play their AA and I end up stackin' them when I hit my flush or straight. It's generally pretty safe to loosen up early, broaden your range and try to see as many cheap flops as you can.

I've got a couple of decent articles that might give you some insight. I'll look them up for ya.
Congrats on the cash & congrats on building bankrolls from nothing - good accomplishment!

Kasanova King said:

The only way I get passed "just cashing" is if I get a big chip lead early and start swallowing up the short stacks. Basically, I'll limp in a lot of flops that aren't raised early on in the tourney - you'll be surprised how many people like to slow play their AA and I end up stackin' them when I hit my flush or straight. It's generally pretty safe to loosen up early, broaden your range and try to see as many cheap flops as you can.

Click to expand...

Whats your range of limping hands? Just wondering I'm curious about this strategy

Poker Orifice said:

I've got a couple of decent articles that might give you some insight. I'll look them up for ya.
Congrats on the cash & congrats on building bankrolls from nothing - good accomplishment!

Click to expand...

Hey Orifice (do you have another nickname? ),

If you find those articles, post them as I'd love to see them as well. Alternatively, send me a PM as well, if possible. I'd appreciate that.

Pokerstudent said:

Hey Orifice (do you have another nickname? ),

If you find those articles, post them as I'd love to see them as well. Alternatively, send me a PM as well, if possible. I'd appreciate that.

Click to expand...

:dito:I would love to see them as well, if Poker Orifice doesn't mind sharing?
And I just finished Phil Gordons Little Green Book (for the first time, this will be one for a lot of re-reads) and he has a great chapter on Tournament Play, condensed but very informative, even tho this info my be old news for you already......

The best strategy when u are at bubble is to play tight aggressive and let others make their move...Also u will see many players trying to bl;ind steal close to the bubble.So u have to be extra careful their...And most importantly whenever u find ur self a victim of blind stealing, and if u want to confront them{if u had premium hands}, i suggest u to go allin and not just call their bets...This is very important. i Have seen it worked many times mate...

Here's my bubble strategy:

1. If I have hardly any stack at all I'll open with anything and call with most things.
2. If I am short stacked I'll fold everything but top 3 hands if that will guarantee a min cash.
3. If I am low end of mid stacked I'll raise any proper hands or steal blinds with anything if doing so leaves enough chips to min cash (as per 2) if I don't hit big.
4. If I have mid to big stack I just play properly.
5. I vary any of the above if I have a particularly good read on a player.

Great info! I like to try to put out a real tight image the level just before the antes so my first couple of steals are better hidden. Ante and blind stealing is a MUST if you dont want to be SSed come the bubble.

The_Pup said:

Here's my bubble strategy:

1. If I have hardly any stack at all I'll open with anything and call with most things.
2. If I am short stacked I'll fold everything but top 3 hands if that will guarantee a min cash.
3. If I am low end of mid stacked I'll raise any proper hands or steal blinds with anything if doing so leaves enough chips to min cash (as per 2) if I don't hit big.
4. If I have mid to big stack I just play properly.
5. I vary any of the above if I have a particularly good read on a player.

Click to expand...

Hmm one of the first thing I did learn was poker is like buying real estate and there is 3 things you need to know position, position and position.

Agree with wetyeti...If i'm not moved from my table i change gears from tag to lag when the antes get big and i'm in position...
U know ppl want to cash so they will mostly fold to you, and if a short stack calls, u can be sure he's got something good...

One thing I have recently started experimenting with is occasionally moving all in, even if it is a big over bet. It can give me the image that I am not afraid to race, which should force my opponents to use some caution when trying to steal my blinds or play in any pot against me. Of course, I am not doing this with crap hands, but with hands I am most likely to be in a favorable position with.

You need to pick your spots. A lot of players tend to tighten up around the bubble so you should be looking to steal a lot more.

I wanted to come back here with an update, since I've done some reading and tourney reviews to try to identify some leaks.

One of the best things I did was read Collin Moshman's Sit 'n Go Strategy. The original question was about MTT SNGs, but the concepts in this single table book are still very relevant. He's actually been around CC in the past, and if you haven't seen his interview with dakota-xx, check it out:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/

In general, I'm too much of a nit. My nitty micro stakes cash game tendencies are forcing me to play too tight, hunting for a cash of any sort instead of going for the maximum ROI. If I've made one change in my game that really mattered since reading this and experimenting with some games, it's been to realize that you're maximizing EV over the long run, and that you've got to take appropriate gambles. Pushing your stack before the blinds come to get you might mean that you go out 7th sometimes with mediocre hands. However, it also means that sometimes you boost your stack high enough with steals and double-ups to hit the cash and take down the whole thing.

Just a little update with some content.

swrittenb, thanks for posting that interview. I am reading SnG stategy for the 2nd time - i only got it 3 weeks ago - and it was interesting to read Collins way of thinking now on a couple of his points from when he wrote the book. I have noticed a great improvement in my Sng playing, and I have been able to spot some leaks as well. I still have a problem with aggressiveness sometimes, especially when faced with real aggressive players, but have found that if I either fold or play balls to the wall (when I have the balls, and hopefully nutz as well, to play that way) and stick to that image, cards willing, I get all the respect I need. But sometimes I have a decent hand, and show strength and get re-raised and then get timid. And then I get punished if there is an attentive player around.. But I am learning, and am working to plug these leaks.