Moving Up In Tournaments

Hey All...

Happy New Year and hope everyone has been running excellent at the tables. This year I've playing the $1 buy in tournaments on America's Cardroom and I must admit that I have surprised myself with the results. My question for the forum is the level of talent the same at $1 tournaments as it is at $50 and $100 tournaments? How many low buy in tournaments should I play (AND WIN) before I go up in entry fees? And how much of my bankroll should I allocate strictly for these tournaments? As it stands after winning another $1 tournament my BR is up to $120 USD.

No, players in the $50 or $100 tourneys will be a lot more skilled on average.

You need 100-200 buy-ins in general for mtts, so don't play $50s until you have at least $5000, unless of course it is just a one off shot and you don't mind losing the $50.

So stay in the $1-$5 end of the tournament pool before I venture out into shark infested waters? I'm in no hurry to blow $50 to see how good I really am so the kiddie pool is just fine for now. My question is aside from having the necessary bankroll to play in these tournaments how will I know skills wise if I'm ready for the jump?

The poker dynamics for $100 and above tend to be alot more strategic and based on how and why you play the way you do.
where as in small stakes you can be almost certain players arent looking further than their cards and the blatantly obvious exploitive plays.

if you want to test yourself at your own peril knowing full well you are exceeding your bankroll I don't see it being a problem I have played high stake games myself on the one off when having plenty of disposable bankroll or satellites.

what I would advise is watching some recorded audit games of good players uploading high stake mtts. so you are aware of what sort if thinking logic goes into it.

its a strange one because some players are natural to the game start playing better players and hit the floor running within a few years they have numurous cashes there.
but other players have an extremely hard time adapting and constructing the right aggressive
Strategy.
if you can apply aggression right it can be highly effective late on. But observation and understanding how to capitalise on your image is key

cotta777 said:

The poker dynamics for $100 and above tend to be alot more strategic and based on how and why you play the way you do.
where as in small stakes you can be almost certain players arent looking further than their cards and the blatantly obvious exploitive plays.

if you want to test yourself at your own peril knowing full well you are exceeding your bankroll I don't see it being a problem I have played high stake games myself on the one off when having plenty of disposable bankroll or satellites.

what I would advise is watching some recorded audit games of good players uploading high stake mtts. so you are aware of what sort if thinking logic goes into it.

its a strange one because some players are natural to the game start playing better players and hit the floor running within a few years they have numurous cashes there.
but other players have an extremely hard time adapting and constructing the right aggressive
Strategy.
if you can apply aggression right it can be highly effective late on. But observation and understanding how to capitalise on your image is key

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I definitely agree that the higher the stakes are, the higher the thought processes of the players are going to be. I definitely want to take micromachine's advice and build my bankroll up before taking my shot. So how would I go about "watching some recorded audit games of good players uploading high stake mtts"? And what should I be looking when a player makes a certain type of play? I don't think America's Cardroom has any mtts on their site but I could be mistaken.

What strategy do you guys suggests when someone wants to move up in tournament stakes? How much such a player earn at each level before advancing? For example if I've cashed in the last 5 $1 tournaments I have entered, should I advance to the $2 tournaments and so on? Honestly, I just want to have some kind of a plan so that I can hold myself accountable.

I find i win more at higher stakes as there is less donks! but just make sure u have the bankroll too back it up

carltikaz said:

I find i win more at higher stakes as there is less donks! but just make sure u have the bankroll too back it up

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I agree that the higher stakes games players keep you on your toes from start to finish. That's why I want to give it try when my bankroll is in better shape. That's the thing about microstakes tournaments that I've noticed thus far. Everyone tries to turn it into a shootout when trying to get the chip lead early on and this is before the antes even come into play! Whereas if you just play tight, get the necessary double ups when needed, bluff when the opportunity presents itself, win a few coin flips here and there and just overall play smart, aggressive poker you'll cash at the very least. Trust me, I'm not downing any of the players (or their play for that matter) but this is the strategy that has been working for me as of late.

Of course, the skill cap of the players changes, in big amount on the tournaments mentioned above. You will see more LAG players and when you play for the very first time you will have trouble getting to know your opponents. Its definitely harder than in lower buy-in tournaments. To go up in entry fees, Im playing according the rule, that I must have atleast 90-100 buy-ins for a particular tournament. So, to play a dollar tournament I need to have atleast 90 dollars. I usually bring 1 to 3 % of my maximum bankroll to one table. Occassionally I play higher buyin tournaments ( just for an example, if Im on a winning streak and win lets say 10 dollars from a 1$ buyin tournament, I could try to play a tournament, just one, for 3 to 5 dollars ). Just to see how it goes. I sometimes cash out, but most of the times I dont, because players are totally different and you have trouble on calculating different situations. Decisions to be made become way too harder to calculate, even when you got the correct odds. This is why I primarily stick to lower buy-in tournaments where Im more favored to win against players on my skill level, than it is on bigger buy-ins. Of course, when I play once in a while a higher buy-in tournament and if I cash out I just keep the money, I dont sign up for another tournament and so on. Did, the first few times, and it turned so not profitable, that when I do cash now I just keep the money, consider it a BR boost, and stick to my regular tournaments.
When I move up to higher buy-in tournaments I usually save a little more money for the first 10. Lets say Im just starting to play a dollar tournament, I save up to 110 dollars, so that with the first 10 dollars Im trying harder to adapt to the specific tournament, and then play with my original bankroll, which will be down to 100, the way Im supposed to play.
Hope this could be of any help to you.

carltikaz said:

I find i win more at higher stakes as there is less donks! but just make sure u have the bankroll too back it up

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Yeah, that really makes sense, less donks = more profit

micromachine said:

Yeah, that really makes sense, less donks = more profit

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Your equation is incomplete. It's

fewer donks + more players who will put pressure on you and force you to make tough decisions = more profit. ;p

TxScorpion said:

Hey All...

Happy New Year and hope everyone has been running excellent at the tables. This year I've playing the $1 buy in tournaments on America's Cardroom and I must admit that I have surprised myself with the results. My question for the forum is the level of talent the same at $1 tournaments as it is at $50 and $100 tournaments? How many low buy in tournaments should I play (AND WIN) before I go up in entry fees? And how much of my bankroll should I allocate strictly for these tournaments? As it stands after winning another $1 tournament my BR is up to $120 USD.

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With $120, I wouldn't go in anything above $5 buy ins.
If you are doing well for a while, and want to gamble a little bit maybe a $10 every once in a while. If you are trying to play bigger events, consider $1-3 satellites trying to make it into a big event.

Carl Trooper said:

With $120, I wouldn't go in anything above $5 buy ins.
If you are doing well for a while, and want to gamble a little bit maybe a $10 every once in a while. If you are trying to play bigger events, consider $1-3 satellites trying to make it into a big event.

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I think OP is talking about mtts, in which case playing $5 buy-ins with a $120 roll would be pretty terrible BRM, even for stts it would be better to have more than 24 buy-ins.

micromachine said:

I think OP is talking about mtts, in which case playing $5 buy-ins with a $120 roll would be pretty terrible BRM, even for stts it would be better to have more than 24 buy-ins.

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I was figuring single table doing max of 5. I agree 25 buy ins isn't the best, but personally if you know where you are at skill wise, taking a shot at 5$ single tables to me isn't that big of a deal. Starting off, sure I wouldn't go above 1-3.

If this is a decent player who is just depositing now and wants to go for it, I wouldn't really mind it.

Since you are playing on ACR I'd recommend playing the $1 & $3 On Demands. They end up playing like multi table SnGs but they are a good way to work on final table play and lower your variance. They also have these at the $5 & $10 levels so you can just work your way up. Once I got to the $5 & $10 level, I'd make sure to play at least 200 games at this level. Too often players get on a heater and start playing higher limits that they are rolled for but their skill level hasn't gotten there yet. Along those same lines if you ever hit a big score, I'd recommend cashing out half.

Like most have said the skill level is obviously better at the $50 & $100 levels. Preflop aggression, restealing, floating, postflop aggression all come in to play more. Post hands & review your play as you move up and you will be fine.

Good luck at the tables.

TxScorpion said:

I definitely agree that the higher the stakes are, the higher the thought processes of the players are going to be. I definitely want to take micromachine's advice and build my bankroll up before taking my shot. So how would I go about "watching some recorded audit games of good players uploading high stake mtts"? And what should I be looking when a player makes a certain type of play? I don't think America's Cardroom has any mtts on their site but I could be mistaken.

What strategy do you guys suggests when someone wants to move up in tournament stakes? How much such a player earn at each level before advancing? For example if I've cashed in the last 5 $1 tournaments I have entered, should I advance to the $2 tournaments and so on? Honestly, I just want to have some kind of a plan so that I can hold myself accountable.

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The key thing to take into account is your bankroll over such a small sample of gameplay you run good or bad over achieve under achieve.

Generally if your cashing consistently and you are playing a solid game its not just luck of winning a few big hands or all ins then moving up would be an option.

alternitively if your win rate was less at the next stake another option would be to open another table at the same stake and keep grinding.

if you have a bankroll of 50 buy ins definitely have a go at the higher stake and see how you are looking after 20 tournaments

goodgameme said:

Since you are playing on ACR I'd recommend playing the $1 & $3 On Demands. They end up playing like multi table SnGs but they are a good way to work on final table play and lower your variance. They also have these at the $5 & $10 levels so you can just work your way up. Once I got to the $5 & $10 level, I'd make sure to play at least 200 games at this level. Too often players get on a heater and start playing higher limits that they are rolled for but their skill level hasn't gotten there yet. Along those same lines if you ever hit a big score, I'd recommend cashing out half.

Like most have said the skill level is obviously better at the $50 & $100 levels. Preflop aggression, restealing, floating, postflop aggression all come in to play more. Post hands & review your play as you move up and you will be fine.

Good luck at the tables.

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Sounds like a plan! Thanks!!

moving up in tourneys

Even if your comfortable at the 1 dollar buy in tourneys ,I think you should take one of those dollars and put into a prequalifer carbon has one every week mon. thru fri.You place in the top 50 you get entry to the sat.qualifier ,and if you place in the top 50 in that one you get entry in the sunday big ticket,do it every week it be worth the experience alone,you can experience the difference yourself at each level.

if you play several tournaments different costs either from 1us to 100 whenever you wish to protect your bank you should take note that if you lose one and you do not go to collections should not affect the other if you have talent is that if you play for going to get more fun to collections, if you play for oblicacion you can lose more easily. The playing of necessity loses obligation greetings!

micromachine said:

I think OP is talking about mtts, in which case playing $5 buy-ins with a $120 roll would be pretty terrible BRM, even for stts it would be better to have more than 24 buy-ins.

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That is absolutely correct. If you are moving up in tournaments you havent played before you better not do it with 24 buy-ins. Unless you're careless whether you will win or lose money.
If Im going up in tournaments I dont have history in I'd much rather have atleast 70-80 minimum. If I have played and made a profit from them in the past I would risk a few tournaments with say 40-50 buyins.
Moving to an unknown tournaments with low amount of BI will more than likely cause a disaster to your BR.

Keep playing the games you feel comfortable with. Consider those your 'Home' games.

But treat yourself to an occasional big tourney (relative to what you have won) with winnings from your 'home' game.

For instance, I have won big, but my home game is the $2 HORSE tourney at merge. The day just don't work right if I don't start it off there....

Yes More donks in small stake tournys. Yep I like to

I like to play knockout tournies because then the donks are great you get more mony. They go allin with all kinds a carpola...lol

Hey Trooper? Where you get my pic of the pumpkin scarecrow peep?

Where on the internet...

It is now my firm conviction that in tourney play, the only buy-in levels that stand apart are the micro micro levels. Anything less that $2 buy-ins.

All the other buy-in levels, from $5-$5,000 will essentially play the same. The difference will only be within the players and how comfortable they feel about losing a BI. That scared money thing is real. It is the most real thing in poker. If you don't have it, or control it well, then be fearless.

If you are like most of us, who want to continue playing poker (online or live) from the profits we make playing poker then that scared money thing is in effect.

I suffer from the scared money thing at sites where my BR is limited. In the US it is harder (more like a serious PITA) to deposit and that lies behind the BRM that I use.

I play rather tight bankroll management . Cuz it's so hard to deposit these days . I look forward to moving up the ladder on carbon much like bovada . My problem right now on carbon I grind crazy hours and cash multiple tourneys in day usually one deep run maybe two but at low stakes like the roi isn't there getting closer to moving up on carbon tho slowly getting there

UHHHH?? Yes indeed. Finally sombody addresses the scared money thing. What about those who prey upon them???