Most important tool/skill for 3rd to final table?

Raggamuffin

Raggamuffin

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What is the number 1 most important thing you do that guarantees you a seat at the final table? Lets say from the final 2/3 tables, onwards!
(I know the whole game is important not just the last 3 tables, but this seems to be where Im falling short, hence the question)
Do you loosen up while everyone else gets extremely tight hanging on for the bubble? Or have you a very strict very strong starting hand range at this point?
Do you hammer bet a lot? Or avoid this incase you have misread your opponent and mistakes at this stage are costly?
I know I should have a great read on my opponents by this stage & I usually do for a small few, but when I get to this point it seems I bleed a lot of chips & usually end up havingto go all in with a mediocre hand. (No HUD)
If I have invested half my stack pre Turn, & lets say for arguments sake the turn is an A & Im holding KK & my Opp immediately shoves all in possibly bluffing but possibly not, is it silly here to fold out giving away half your stack? Leaving you with under 10 BBs. I dont know much about ICM etc at the moment so any advice appreciated. Just went out in 14th AGAIN!! I'm hoping I can find and plug at least 1 leak before tomorrows game! Any help more than welcome :)
 
10058765

10058765

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Open up the other table(s) and watch the behaviour of the players.
You don't have to have their exact stats (like when you do have a hud) to find out who are playing passive and who are not.
The cards you get don't matter that much, it's effective stacks and the intentions of your opponents which matter.
So in general I'd say study your opponents.

And on a sidenote...don't limp.
 
JohnCPoker17

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Calculated Aggression. You must open up, use your reads to the best of your advantage. Chip up off weaker players and be very pot happy. You must be able to dominate the table. Play a lot more hands in position, and play certain spots solely based on reads IP, not hands (ie. CO raise w/ 9,3o because you have a strong dominant impression). These are some tactics I used to win the Big $4.40 on PS.
 
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Trap a lot with your monster hands and play aggressive from blinds versus aggro button raisers
 
dj11

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Be patient, play your normal game, don't do anything marginal that will bust you.

In my experiences with getting deep, I find that it is usually little that I do to get there, rather it is other folks doing stupid stuff that busts them out. More times me doing little to nothing, than me doing something.

I have won as many tourneys beating being the bubble boy as I have being CL when the bubble busted. So downplay the notion of 'in it to win it'. That will still factor in, but not until the FT is short handed. Get there first.
 
Poker Orifice

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Newer (& some older) are looking for some magic recipe & often trying to force the situation instead of waiting to look for good spots (will take some time & experience to identify those 'spots').

The only advice I could offer would be to ... learn.. learn.. learn some more.
ie. stack sizes and how we need to adjust as a result of
- potential steal spots
- good 3-betting spots
- resteal shove spots
- knowing when it's +ev to call off
- understanding ICM & realizing how it affects the situation
.. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Identifying good players & identifying their ranges in certain spots (ie. good players don't typically flat with 15-20bb's over an MP, HJ, CO raise in pos. unless they're holding a MONSTER).

The list goes on.. & on & on.

Try watching some vids., some live streaming (even the wsop final tables as the commentary this year is superb by some of the guest players in the booth.. ie. Brian Rast & many, many others). Try reading some decent books (ie. WinningPokerTOurnaments - One Hand At A Time)

I think for us to say, "what do I need to do in final 20 players" is actually a vague question because as always 'it depends' (there are always many variables).
If you want to discover what mistakes you might be making, post some of your MTT HH's for feedback.
 
Raggamuffin

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Open up the other table(s) and watch the behaviour of the players.
You don't have to have their exact stats (like when you do have a hud) to find out who are playing passive and who are not.
The cards you get don't matter that much, it's effective stacks and the intentions of your opponents which matter.
So in general I'd say study your opponents.

And on a sidenote...don't limp.

Ive been doing this recently, opening up the other tables & taking as much notes as I can, thank you :) Limping this late in the game was a leak I had before which has thankfully been plugged for the most part.
I think Push/Fold is definitely when the fear comes in unless you are sitting comfortably with a decent stack & plenty of notes on the players at your table
.
Lately my note taking has become much more elaborate, taking down their position as well as stack size & how they play out the hand etc
Before I was just simply noting their hand range (how silly, I know :D ) so this is a big improvement for me!
So now I need to be able to confidently identify how they play in general passive, aggressive, always plays position etc
What else should be included? Do you think its important to incorporate what stage the tourney is at? Or is there any other information Im allowing myself to miss out on? :)
 
Raggamuffin

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Calculated Aggression. You must open up, use your reads to the best of your advantage. Chip up off weaker players and be very pot happy. You must be able to dominate the table. Play a lot more hands in position, and play certain spots solely based on reads IP, not hands (ie. CO raise w/ 9,3o because you have a strong dominant impression). These are some tactics I used to win the Big $4.40 on PS.

Thanks for the reply John. Calculated Aggression!!! I like it! Sometimes I believe I have a good read and feel the guy is just stealing, but my weak hand never feels good enough to call with.
If you are not the dominant one, lets say your middle stacked ..what kind of hands would you play against the loose big stacked shover? Any ax? Kq(s) ? Kj(o)? I would think any of these would be a definite yes, but what about when you have worse like T9(o) Qx(o) just bad cards in general?

Or would you purposefully stay out of pots with this guy (unless you had the nuts) and try to play against the weaker oppostion? Which can be impossible sometimes when the big stack is in most hands.
Before when a loose agg player was sat to my left I would be feeling the fear, but nowadays I look at it as an easy double up when I get a sweet hand!
 
Raggamuffin

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Trap a lot with your monster hands and play aggressive from blinds versus aggro button raisers

When to trap and when not to trap?!
This is a big pain in the ass for me.
I guess the answer is by knowing your table well! Theres nothing worse than opening with a 3/4 bet on a monster hand and everyone folds out.
Or the opposite of flatting with a monster only for the flop to f%*k ya over!
The same goes for playing your blinds against an agg button..it all comes back to knowing the player and the dynamics of the table!
So my question has been answered, a leak found!! Im not studying my opponents enough, especially if they have a HUD against me. I need to be absorbing more info at the table throughout the tourney if I want to beat these guys at the later stages!! Thanks guys :)
 
dj11

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As the field narrows, you will be playing a lot of short handed tables. So get familiar with 6 max, some of the Jackpot (3 handed) and HU, games.
 
Raggamuffin

Raggamuffin

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Newer (& some older) are looking for some magic recipe & often trying to force the situation instead of waiting to look for good spots (will take some time & experience to identify those 'spots').

The only advice I could offer would be to ... learn.. learn.. learn some more.
ie. stack sizes and how we need to adjust as a result of
- potential steal spots
- good 3-betting spots
- resteal shove spots
- knowing when it's +ev to call off
- understanding ICM & realizing how it affects the situation
.. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Identifying good players & identifying their ranges in certain spots (ie. good players don't typically flat with 15-20bb's over an MP, HJ, CO raise in pos. unless they're holding a MONSTER).

The list goes on.. & on & on.

Try watching some vids., some live streaming (even the WSOP final tables as the commentary this year is superb by some of the guest players in the booth.. ie. Brian Rast & many, many others). Try reading some decent books (ie. WinningPokerTOurnaments - One Hand At A Time)

I think for us to say, "what do I need to do in final 20 players" is actually a vague question because as always 'it depends' (there are always many variables).
If you want to discover what mistakes you might be making, post some of your MTT HH's for feedback.

Hey thanks for the reply. Im not sure I asked for you to tell me what mistakes Ive been making, I thought I asked you guys what techniques ye regularly use at late tourney stage but I could be mistaken.
Anyway in retrospect I did find a good starting point of where to begin improving my game from some of the replies given, which I am grateful for! :) Reading books and watching vids kinda goes without saying but IMO nothing is better than getting to hear (read) how other people act in the same situations etc
 
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