Which is more effective--3 bet or check raise?

I know a lot of people on here love the 3 bet. This is probably a non issue at micros but....

Which is more effective? 3 bet or a check raise. I have found the check raise to be more effective. People online will fold a lot more to it because they think they are getting set up.

Thoughts?

3bet adds more pressure because your making them put in more money then what they inititally intended and works if the opponent isnt good enough to 4bet you
the reason it works is if they arent good enough to 4bet they usually dont have a plan set when they miss, as a result your cbet takes it most of the time

The way the check raise works is, you let them see smaller flops, so your controlling the size of the pot allowing them to raise but then you are having to put more in before you know where you stand, if he has missed you usually take it there and then but its only a small pot, but when they have hit you lose a slightly bigger pot given your raise sizing is correct

i guess stack sizing is the key element in all of this, if you have 15-25BB your check raise might be better, but when you are deep stacked like at the start your 3bet is always going to be better

Other issues with the 3bet is, unless your in position, and opponent gives certain tells as to when he hits or misses, then your purely check raising in the dark, and do this too often then opponents will start to fight back, in which case you have to hope you hit a big hand at the same time they do chose to fight back

I like a check call too, Like it looks well disguised if you check call, 3/4 pot a good player will often read you as strong

3-betting is cool also, you give yourself more options on the flop

one of my favourate moves is to check call on the flop. and on the turn if they second barrel and I have a good board to rep, I'll take a long pause and put in a re-raise - say they bet $3.25 1/2 to 2/3 pot I'l re-raise them $6.98 or something,
it looks very strong because its of a value raise than a bluff, and A they fold. B they check the river if they call the turn and alot of hands are beating them at showdown

to the OP I like where this question is going....but I think we need a little more info

define "effective"? I assume the desired effect is to get them to fold. typically if you want get your opponent to fold, you want to risk as few chips as possible to get it done. generally a check raise and 3bet will cost about the same.

So this really becomes an issue of position. a 3bet is done in position, a check raise is done out of position. They are both valuable tools to have in your toolbox and you'll never have to choose between the 2 options since you'll either have position or you won't.

I think they are both strong, they are both effective but the check raise inspires more "fear" in your opponent than a 3bet. because you are willing to play a big pot out of position your opponent thinks you are very strong.

I'd say this, if you're on a pure bluff it is probably WISER to 3bet more often than you check raise because in the 3bet scenario you have position throughout the hand and so it will be easier to play the rest of the hand in the times that they call you.

Very good question.

I think miss jacki answered this one just right. I need to learn a lot more about position. I like this thread. Also I agree with kingmunchers. I would go with the 3 bet in position.

check raise - not a bad play but its sooo overused and imho there are more spots to 3bet

I prefer 3- Bet it makes me to the active player first.

missjacki said:

to the OP I like where this question is going....but I think we need a little more info

define "effective"? I assume the desired effect is to get them to fold. typically if you want get your opponent to fold, you want to risk as few chips as possible to get it done. generally a check raise and 3bet will cost about the same.

So this really becomes an issue of position. a 3bet is done in position, a check raise is done out of position. They are both valuable tools to have in your toolbox and you'll never have to choose between the 2 options since you'll either have position or you won't.

I think they are both strong, they are both effective but the check raise inspires more "fear" in your opponent than a 3bet. because you are willing to play a big pot out of position your opponent thinks you are very strong.

I'd say this, if you're on a pure bluff it is probably WISER to 3bet more often than you check raise because in the 3bet scenario you have position throughout the hand and so it will be easier to play the rest of the hand in the times that they call you.

Click to expand...

Let's say you are UTG and mid stacked. You are getting close to being in the short stack range. You play tight and a lot of people fold when you bet. So, you attempt a semi bluff with 9 10 suited and raise 4 X BB. One caller stays and the flop is 5 J 2 rainbow. Check raise or 3 bet it?

lost2qandisa said:

Let's say you are UTG and mid stacked. You are getting close to being in the short stack range. You play tight and a lot of people fold when you bet. So, you attempt a semi bluff with 9 10 suited and raise 4 X BB. One caller stays and the flop is 5 J 2 rainbow. Check raise or 3 bet it?

Click to expand...

You don't have the choice between the 2. Are you in position or out of position?

If you are first to act you can either just bet out or go for the check raise, you don't have the opportunity to "3 bet"

If you are in position and they bet into you, you can call, fold or 3 bet, but you cannot check raise because if they check and you check it will bring the turn card.

So you will never have to decide between a check raise and a 3bet...because they are different moves, one for when you have position and one for when you don't...

Unless I am missing something ... I hope we all have the same definition of 3bet and check raise? I suppose every check raise is also technically a 3bet, but not vice versa