Minraises of short stack allins: Hand analysis plus a poll

A

awesome

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Typically I have found that when a villain minraises an all in it is a medium strength hand such as AJo KQo J10s and medium pairs. I suspect it is a spot where most players are unbalanced.

Recently in a tournament, I was ITM and getting toward the late stages when UTG+1 shoved 6.5BB. Villain min raised to 13BB in the CO with over 100BB and I have 33BB in the SB and see QQ. I tank shoved and of course was surprised that V showed up w AA.

Does anyone else have any experience with this and are they also surprised that V tried to iso w a min raise? I will dig through my hands to see if I can find some similar situations but if you have any recent or old hands that you can add to the convo, much appreciated.

Game ID: 659719034 300/600 $300 GTD R/A, Table 20 (Hold'em)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: cokpit (4305).
Seat 2: dom524 (26932).
Seat 3: rpe123 (16335).
Seat 4: Krayzie77 (42375).
Seat 5: RAYDOG22 (67129).
Seat 6: ruicastela63 (12671).
Seat 7: HERO (20370).
Seat 8: BobbyVee (7902).
Seat 9: bckorth (6771).
Player HERO received card: [Qh]
Player HERO received card: [Qc]
Player cokpit allin (4245)
Player dom524 folds
Player rpe123 folds
Player Krayzie77 folds
Player RAYDOG22 raises (7890)
Player ruicastela63 folds
Player HERO allin (20010)
Player BobbyVee folds
Player RAYDOG22 calls (12420)
*** FLOP ***: [8c 3c Js]
*** TURN ***: [8c 3c Js] [Jc]
*** RIVER ***: [8c 3c Js Jc] [3s]
------ Summary ------
Pot: 46005
Board: [8c 3c Js Jc 3s]
Player cokpit shows: Two pairs. Js and 3s [As 10s]. Bets: 4305. Collects: 0. Loses: 4305.
Player dom524 does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Player rpe123 does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Player Krayzie77 does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
*Player RAYDOG22 shows: Two pairs. As and Js [Ah Ad]. Bets: 20370. Collects: 46005. Wins: 25635.
Player ruicastela63 does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Player HERO shows: Two pairs. Qs and Js [Qh Qc]. Bets: 20370. Collects: 0. Loses: 20370.
Player BobbyVee does not show cards.Bets: 660. Collects: 0. Loses: 660.
Player bckorth does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Game ended at: 2016/6/13 9:9:10
 
R

rule72

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Does anyone else have any experience with this and are they also surprised that V tried to iso w a min raise?

I think V is wanting to keep some hands in, but not too many thus the small raise and have one or two more players in since the UTG all-in is so short. Loosing to the all-in stack is inconsequential to V's stack if he can win a bigger side pot.

Have I ever seen this...this is exactly what I do in the V's situation. There are a few, very few, in my tourney that know this and if they're min 3-bet they'll fold unless they have AA or KK.

I would normally raise more in the more typical scenario, but this was special. In a 3-way situation with short stacks I'm looking to see if I'm really playing against one or two players before I decide to get involved. Often the the real short stack is a non factor.
 
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A

awesome

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Another hand example of a minraise of an all in.

This time minraiser has 1010.

Game started at: 2016/6/19 12:54:26
Game ID: 663731780 40/80 $3 Holdem Turbo - On Demand, Table 1 (Hold'em)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: casinhas17 (1435).
Seat 2: volcomizado (1300).
Seat 3: HERO (2088).
Seat 4: JWK24 (2812).
Seat 6: CooCooKachoo (2235).
Seat 7: milksak (325).
Seat 9: Super503 (3305).
Player HERO received card: [5s]
Player HERO received card: [Jc]
Player milksak allin (315)
Player Super503 raises (550)
Player casinhas17 folds
Player volcomizado folds
Player HERO folds
Uncalled bet (235) returned to Super503
*** FLOP ***: [Qc Kh 4d]
*** TURN ***: [Qc Kh 4d] [6d]
*** RIVER ***: [Qc Kh 4d 6d] [8s]
------ Summary ------
Pot: 820
Board: [Qc Kh 4d 6d 8s]
Player casinhas17 does not show cards.Bets: 10. Collects: 0. Loses: 10.
Player volcomizado does not show cards.Bets: 50. Collects: 0. Loses: 50.
Player HERO does not show cards.Bets: 90. Collects: 0. Loses: 90.
Player JWK24 does not show cards.Bets: 10. Collects: 0. Loses: 10.
Player CooCooKachoo does not show cards.Bets: 10. Collects: 0. Loses: 10.
*Player milksak shows: One pair of Ks [Ks Ah]. Bets: 325. Collects: 820. Wins: 495.
Player Super503 shows: One pair of 10s [10d 10h]. Bets: 325. Collects: 0. Loses: 325.
Game ended at: 2016/6/19 12:54:59
 
A

awesome

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example number 3

villain has AKo.

Game started at: 2016/6/22 7:50:49
Game ID: 665490203 50/100 $25 GTD - On Demand, Table 1 (Hold'em)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: rsrclm (288).
Seat 2: Kertar (5158).
Seat 4: MrNickell (3210).
Seat 5: Jokettee (1535).
Seat 6: fatatas (2590).
Seat 7: HERO (5552).
Seat 8: MorganL95 (3050).
Seat 9: MrSeth (1275).
Player HERO received card: [2d]
Player HERO received card: [Qs]
Player rsrclm allin (278)
Player Kertar folds
Player MrNickell raises (456)
Player Jokettee folds
Player fatatas folds
Player HERO folds
Player MorganL95 calls (356)
*** FLOP ***: [Qh 8c 3s]
Player MorganL95 checks
Player MrNickell checks
*** TURN ***: [Qh 8c 3s] [5d]
Player MorganL95 checks
Player MrNickell bets (300)
Player MorganL95 calls (300)
*** RIVER ***: [Qh 8c 3s 5d] [Qd]
Player MorganL95 checks
Player MrNickell checks
------ Summary ------
Pot: 1920
Board: [Qh 8c 3s 5d Qd]
Player rsrclm shows: One pair of Qs [9d 7h]. Bets: 288. Collects: 0. Loses: 288.
Player Kertar does not show cards.Bets: 10. Collects: 0. Loses: 10.
*Player MrNickell shows: One pair of Qs (kicker K) [Kc Ac]. Bets: 766. Collects: 1920. Wins: 1154.
Player Jokettee does not show cards.Bets: 10. Collects: 0. Loses: 10.
Player fatatas does not show cards.Bets: 10. Collects: 0. Loses: 10.
Player HERO does not show cards.Bets: 60. Collects: 0. Loses: 60.
Player MorganL95 shows: One pair of Qs [Ah Js]. Bets: 766. Collects: 0. Loses: 766.
Player MrSeth does not show cards.Bets: 10. Collects: 0. Loses: 10.
Game ended at: 2016/6/22 7:51:56
 
W

WiZZiM

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that type of raise means two things usually.

1. they have the goods.

2. they have no idea what they are going, and just clicked the raise button as they didnt know how to raise more, or simply couldnt be bothered. They will still tend to have stronger than average hands though.

So if the player is decent, you can be pretty sure he's got the goods and make nitty folds. I still don't really think you can fold qq here with only 33bb, but if your read is strong enough i guess you can make a case for it. if the player is unknown or bad, then it's the easest jam in the world.
 
milencenov

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My logic goes as follows:

1. The shortest stack is anyway all-in. He cannot fold. Even if you dump a truck of chips on the table - he cannot fold.

2. The raise is aimed to isolate the all-in player, and thus to avoid a situation where 3-4 players (mostly donks and fish) would "cheap" call and try their luck.

3. The raise creates "fold equity" - i.e., it will scare the speculative hands off this pot. (related to 2.)

4. I anybody calls, there is additional big side pot to be contested.

More than 10 times, I was in similar situations with AA. And in half of them, the short stack was lucky with 44 or 66 to hit a set... and it was the side pot against AK, KQ, etc. that saved my a**.
 
R

rule72

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Typically I have found that when a villain minraises an all in it is a medium strength hand such as AJo KQo J10s and medium pairs...

Does anyone else have any experience with this and are they also surprised that V tried to iso w a min raise?

Beyond my comments to your first example the subsequent two examples by comparison shows that all people don't play the same. This demonstrates where even when you're not in the hand you need to watch how the other players play especially when it goes to showdown and you can think back to how they play poker. All those players that stare at their phone, watch tv, read books, etc. at the table don't have a clue how much info they're missing.

lol...I saw a player reading a poker book, that I was very familiar with, while playing one time and early in the book and throughout he emphasizes paying attention while playing.
 
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