Min-raise with short stack at micro levels

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AJantwan

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To quote Liv Boeree, at this stack size "it’s just not possible to create a balanced, credible range of hands you can raise-fold, and thus it will be very easy for your opponents to adjust and take advantage of you."

But I'm thinking that at small stakes, opponents just aren't going to be paying enough attention. When discussing a hand with Phil Helmuth, where he's arguing that it's okay to min raise at this level, Liv responds that "...it means we are assuming that the blinds are very tight and only re-jamming very few hands, or alternatively, it means they haven’t figured out that you’re min-raising hands like A-2 with the intention of folding. As soon as they notice that you’re prepared to raise-fold with that stack size, they’ll correctly widen their shoving range...and will therefore be exploiting you massively."

But the key part is that she recognizes that if those who are acting after you aren't paying attention, then a min-raise could work. Right?

So the question becomes, is anyone paying attention at the micro level? I plan on looking at my HM2 stats for when players with <10BB min-raise and see how others respond, but my sample size probably isn't huge, so I thought I'd get an opinion on CardsChat.

Thoughts? Is it okay to minraise with a short stack?
 
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gryphon3005

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An intriguing question...was the pro conversation referring to min-raising from the button or the cutoff to target the blinds? I can't see this scenario including min raises from any other position at the table and, I assume in the case discussed everyone had folded to the raiser. That being said I think min raises might work but not for long. I found that if I had the good fortune to come up with a good hand in late position that my shove, whether I won on showdown or everyone folded, would set me up for a min raise blind steal. I have done this more than once and I think the players who folded were afraid I was going to shove on the flop after seeing my earlier shove.

I think this play really only works best in the middle stage of an MTT when players are concerned about making the money. So, like so many other ideas in poker, yes I think min raising with a short stack does work but "it depends" :)
 
dedok0525

dedok0525

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Bajina depends on the size and strength of your opponents. If your opponent knows what you are doing a small raise with the A2 and will call this hand you can play more aggressively on the post flop.
 
Luvepoker

Luvepoker

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It really depend on your opponents at the table. There are many players who will fold to any size bet you make and there are other who recognize the value of calling with even junk against a min raise.
 
korneel

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I think at micro stack. It's better the minraise with a good hand (when shortstacked), since you will have more callers/reraiser.
Outside of micro stack, people will be fast to notice what you're doing.
 
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xy23

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Yes, I'm always aware of shove stacks, 3 bet shove stacks, and especially min raises. However the metagame of MTT was that if a shove stack min raises, he probably has a monster hand cuz he's trying to induce a 3bet shove with the intention of calling.
The metagame adapted to this where thinking players realized they can do this with a short stack to thinking players.
However thinking players adapted to this and now it's back to the initial metagame as your post where min raises are a sign of weakness.
Depending on how many recreational (non-thinking) and thinking players there are at your table, should give you an indication of how to play your short stack so its unexploitable.
 
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skeptix

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I advocate only doing this with very strong hands to try and get action. What I do like doing though, is with 3-6bb making it 3x (but you're never folding). This confuses people and you get some silly folds. If I've got 2-3bb I'll make it something like 2.2x (some number smaller than your entire stack).
 
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AJantwan

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...However the metagame of MTT was that if a shove stack min raises, he probably has a monster hand cuz he's trying to induce a 3bet shove with the intention of calling.
The metagame adapted to this where thinking players realized they can do this with a short stack to thinking players.
However thinking players adapted to this and now it's back to the initial metagame as your post where min raises are a sign of weakness.

I definitely find myself thinking that a tiny bet by someone with 5BB is their way of hoping to get called with their AA / KK / QQ.

Would be interesting to look at my HM2 stats and see if I can figure out what's more likely. A monster or a semi-bluff?
 
Erpherk

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Min raise means nothing in micro tournament early stages regardless of stack size... I do pay attention to raise sizing and i think maybe in the mid-late tourney stages it would command some folds but the BB will always be priced in. I would ask myself why they didn't just go all in with 10 bb and might view it as weakness praying to hit a flop with KQ QJ type hands before committing the rest. In some cases it might look strong.
 
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