min bets and other bullshit like that..

OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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playing a few tourneys to get back into grind mode (taking shots on sky because the game on there are SUPER weak) and was put in a spot in the 1st level that I just wanted some clarification on..

(in the same vein as my other post this week)

Sky HH don't convert on here so I'll try my best to describe :)

1st hand of the tourney, in the SB with Q6s and was limped around by every one, completed in the blinds and the BB checked.

Flop comes QJ6 rainbow, I checked and the CO min bet 20. Folds around to me, I call hoping to pick up backdoor spades semi bluff outs on top of the fact I could have the best hand already.

Turn comes an offsuit 10 and the player now bets 40. The pots around 200 now and I flat again.

River bricks and the player bets 40 again. With my experience of players at these sites and levels, these bets are usually 2 pair or better.. do I ever call here or should I fold with these sick odds? :albertein
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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The time to fold was preflop. Completing there is a pretty big leak.

Lead flop. As played raise flop. As played flop and turn you can't not call the river bet.

But again, fold preflop.
 
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thejudge

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Well for the amount it costs u have to call. and I don't think i would have folded pre flop either
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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you reckon calling 10 to win potential 2k stacks there is a leak? not disagreeing just wondering why, except the obvious reverse implied odds..

does this change for cash or what? we're still 100bb deep, just wondering what your opinion is there

I considered leading and check raising, but both look so strong when I only have TPSK.. (flop wasnt QJ6, my mistake QJ3)
 
WVHillbilly

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Ohhh well not having 2pair changes things a lot. I just check fold to any real bet and as played probably just call down his min/double min bets.

And yeah I fold this preflop in any game pretty much regardless of how deep.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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well.. I just had Q6s in the same spot and folded it :) 4big shorty in the BB though haha, i'm improving! lol
 
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As said already completing with Q6s is pretty horrible. It's a leak, an absolutely huge one. Call river as played
 
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If I read you original post correctly everyone limped to you in the SB - you mean every other player for example 6 7 or eight players? Could you clarify this point.
 
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6 max tourney, was open limped and everyone followed suit.
 
-Phil Ivey27

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Confused on why it's a big leak to complete from small blind?

Elaborate please I am very interested, I always thought it was practically mandatory to complete with such good odds.
 
WVHillbilly

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You're paying half price for something you shouldn't want for free (playing OOP without initiative).
 
-Phil Ivey27

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Yes, but if you have 76 and it's 10 more to call into a 80 pot and you are 200BB's deep and the flop goes 5 4 3 and you take a stack of 4,000 away from another guy who has 5 4 then don't plays like that make it justifiable?
 
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No. Doesn't happen often enough.

Also 200 bb deep with connectors and a couple limpers you should be raising not completing.
 
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-Phil Ivey27 said:
Yes, but if you have 76 and it's 10 more to call into a 80 pot and you are 200BB's deep and the flop goes 5 4 3 and you take a stack of 4,000 away from another guy who has 5 4 then don't plays like that make it justifiable?
Click to expand...

Im not that great at math, but thats a miracle flop... or even an open ended flop is very fortunate.... I cant think we are going to get a flop that is worth staying with often enough to be worth our time
 
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This is simply an example. If you flop two pair, trips, a straight, a flush, maybe a straight draw that you get a free card with, or a cheap card with, that you can end up hitting, flush draws you get cheap cards with, etc.. Still not correct to complete? Regardless of odds?

And so there are limpers and you have 76 in the SB and you raise? Why :l

What if the table is extremely loose and you just get called all around.. Isn't this throwing away money? Or even if you only get called by two players.. I mean I understand raising/isolating limpers but..
 
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Hard to get a free card when you act 1st of 4 or 5 players. Also note that we've gone from OP completing with Q6s to you trying to justify it with connectors. I'd still fold or raise them but 76 hits a lot more flops than Q6s.

As for why I would raise 76 200bb deep with multiple limpers? I like winning money and having the initiative even though I'll be OOP gives me the best chance of winning lots of it.
 
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WVHillbilly said:
Hard to get a free card when you act 1st of 4 or 5 players. Also note that we've gone from OP completing with Q6s to you trying to justify it with connectors. I'd still fold or raise them but 76 hits a lot more flops than Q6s.

As for why I would raise 76 200bb deep with multiple limpers? I like winning money and having the initiative even though I'll be OOP gives me the best chance of winning lots of it.
Click to expand...

I thought you were not a fan of completing from the SB at all for some reason, but ehh what you say makes sense.

Just thought one would raise IP rather than OOP in any scenario with limpers involved, although I suppose it is right of first bluff.
 
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I'd much rather raise IP than from the SB but about the only time I like completing is with a small pp and a few limpers who are not folding to any raise. It's still really hard to make any money postflop (because people tend to not want to play for stacks in limped pots) but at least a set is well hidden and you can make some money occasionally + you won't get coolered very often unlike with say 2pair.
 
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Ok i'll fix this personal leak of mine as well..

Lets say if it were to be 4 handed or so deeper in a tournament and you have Q6s in the SB is it still incorrect to complete from SB?
 
WVHillbilly

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Imo yes. Basically cooler hands are going to hit for/against you about the same amount, so those cancel. It's the rest of the time that you should focus on. How often does Q6s win a medium sized pot?

Fold, relax, and get ready to be the BTN.
 
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-Phil Ivey27 said:
Ok i'll fix this personal leak of mine as well..

Lets say if it were to be 4 handed or so deeper in a tournament and you have Q6s in the SB is it still incorrect to complete from SB?
Click to expand...

Do you mean BvB? Either was yes barirng a very specific read. I played a tourney before where the guy would rather bust than not defend his blind (directly to left of me, fml). However he was very soft post-flop so I just limped and took pots away postflop. That's one situation where it's okay to limp, you'll very rarely come across a spot (bar a PP), whether 4-handed, HU or full ring where limping is advisable.
 
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Campbell92 said:
playing a few tourneys to get back into grind mode (taking shots on sky because the game on there are SUPER weak) and was put in a spot in the 1st level that I just wanted some clarification on..

(in the same vein as my other post this week)

Sky HH don't convert on here so I'll try my best to describe :)

1st hand of the tourney, in the SB with Q6s and was limped around by every one, completed in the blinds and the BB checked.

Flop comes QJ6 rainbow, I checked and the CO min bet 20. Folds around to me, I call hoping to pick up backdoor spades semi bluff outs on top of the fact I could have the best hand already.

Turn comes an offsuit 10 and the player now bets 40. The pots around 200 now and I flat again.

River bricks and the player bets 40 again. With my experience of players at these sites and levels, these bets are usually 2 pair or better.. do I ever call here or should I fold with these sick odds? :albertein
Click to expand...

I usually see this betting pattern in tournament only not in cash games. I think thin value mini betting is a blocking bet. He likely has middle pair with good kicker or top pair with bad kicker and want to hit the two pair on the turn or river. I think you should raise to 3/4 pot on the turn and take over the betting on the river if he calls.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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are we doing this for value, or is this a bluff?
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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But we have top pair, agreed it is a shitty kicker.. but if hes doing this with second pair and other raggy top pairs, don't we have some showdown equity?

Unless we win more by making him fold in the long run.
 
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