Making stack vs Survival

Jester36rus

Jester36rus

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Total posts
213
Chips
0
So tournament players there is the question for you

Where is the edge between collecting stack and survival in tournament?
 
Radi

Radi

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 11, 2016
Total posts
209
Awards
4
Chips
0
For me when you are around 10-12 BB you are short stack and you have to wait for a card for all in and hope. Over 16-17 BB you can play it normal.
 
87shorts

87shorts

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Total posts
932
Chips
0
anything under 15 big blinds you cant really play hands properly and should be shoving premium hands. anything under 10 and you need to shove pretty much any 2 broadways and any ace imo.
 
Jester36rus

Jester36rus

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Total posts
213
Chips
0
I feel safe with at least 25-30 BBs+ante, but 5-7 BBs is not the rule for all in on preflop even having top pocket pairs.
 
K

kozong

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Total posts
1,442
Awards
8
Chips
2
making stack any days

016bf7ef1c92a60856ae355d84244072_400x400.jpeg
 
George Lewis

George Lewis

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2016
Total posts
135
Chips
0
I look for chances to steal by shoving sometimes a bit sooner than most. It has to be the right situation and time and you can get burned but this can be very effective if done correctly. I am trying to avoid becoming so short that I am no threat. In this case it doesnt matter what your cards are because you get called and will sometimes lose with the better starting hand and be out but even when you double up it doesnt do you much good. I shove as early as 20 to 25 BB's but again only in the right situations. If I have been tight or if there aren't many players left to act..sometimes just a feeling that it is the right time. This means if it works adjusting to a tighter shove range next time but if you catch a big hand double or triple shoving can get someone to call you only to see you with AA. I will sometimes play standard as well and be patient but it can be super frustrating to sit and melt away with not even a chance to get lucky in a hand as you literally play zero hands. There is really not much play at times in tournaments compared to deep stack cash and just playing it fast is better much of the time.
 
E

emarcolino

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Total posts
25
Chips
0
That's kind of vague. It depends a lot on the tournament structure, prize structure, the other stacks on the table, etc... Hard to give an answer with no further info.
 
C

chronical

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Total posts
1,128
Awards
1
Chips
1
All the way 0_o
I don't see the difference. You try to survive and win all the way till you win. Haven you've been in the spot whrer you are the chip lead or 2-5th than 1 cooler from a whale and you are either out, or with 2bb? Unless the tournament has something like "50 places paid" structure, there i no place you can feel really comfortable
If you talking BB/(M) and the "plays" than the rough assasement is correct(but you should conccider M)
25BB+ - basicaly any hands to play, the reall poker if you will. you bully the table, if you can, steal, play gapers, and limp if you want
15-25BB+ - tigher ranger, no UTG raises with bad hands, any 3bet is somthing to conncider, small pairs are a question..
-15BB - Just wait hands/spots

but again you have to conccider who you play with, structure, how far is the bubble...
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Total posts
6,362
Awards
20
GR
Chips
249
.... '' 25BB+ - basicaly any hands to play, ....
15-25BB+ - tigher ranger, no UTG raises with bad hands, any 3bet is somthing to conncider, small pairs are a question..
-15BB - Just wait hands/spots '' ...

but again you have to conccider who you play with, structure, how far is the bubble...

^^ I guess that's all you need to know on a situation like this , but I guess it's well understood when you play , you don't have to remember the theory , I mean you have only 12 BB , what are you going to do , raise 3bb and fold it if not improved or raise and then reraise ?It's simple logic you go all in, except it's a monster hand , you can raise and later reraise all in , you can ''risk''it , if you have 20 bb you know you have to double soon or else you get blind out . But you cannot see the wider range hands as they are expensive now . easy to get it , except you are on tilt or card dead for very long , I guess you might try sth not so good then , he??
 
Jester36rus

Jester36rus

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Total posts
213
Chips
0
yes I agree that the real situation can bypass any theoretical passages, but I think (and do believe))) some strategy can be worked out.
 
B

bstest

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Total posts
522
Chips
0
Live tournaments, I play small ball and try to consistently build stack. Often a bad strategy against the super aggressive whose stack may tower over mine. But they play all or none. Survival comes near the bubble, nothing new here. I'm no genius but belong to the slow but steady wins the race group
 
B

brrrddz

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
May 12, 2016
Total posts
41
Chips
0
Hi man..of course if u manage to build a big healthy stack, u will increase your chances to reach in later stages and win the tournament!
 
Jester36rus

Jester36rus

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Total posts
213
Chips
0
Yes, it is obviously that making stack is the way to survival in tourney. Let me clarify the question. I meant edge between healthy wish of stack raising and safety. As a rude example, is a push with AA safe in preflop? I have an answer for me, but it is example not for answer, but for more correct understanding of question.
 
E

emarcolino

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Total posts
25
Chips
0
Well, if you are talking about having a stack the allows you to play beyond push/fold pre-flop I would say something like 20+ bb's or even more if you are playing with antes in a full table. It's good to understand the M factor (number of orbits you can pay with your stack) to go deeper in this subject.
 
Zacccpanec

Zacccpanec

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 12, 2016
Total posts
125
Chips
0
having 19-20 BB I used active of stilling, at 14-15 are not as active even at 9-10, stillit don't understand why is everyone trying to press the button push when you can continue the fight in other safer ways
 
C

Cloud2218

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 7, 2016
Total posts
42
Chips
0
I try to keep my numbers higher then the bubble. Otherwise I feel like it will be tough later too stay in the game.
 
Joken23

Joken23

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Total posts
16
Chips
0
You have to survive if you feel you cant make it through the bubble, then just try to collect chips every hand, sometimes you ll be able to throw BBs and other times you can only play strong hds
 
B

boomeranged

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Total posts
54
Chips
0
Anything below 10 BB's, you are short stacked and you play shove or fold (ICM). Otherwise, you have to play the game like a cash game waiting for a good hand.
 
S

sillymunchie

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Total posts
618
Chips
0
take advantage of playersd patterns, if somebody is stewaling alot consider the reshove with a less then prem hand
 
Jester36rus

Jester36rus

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Total posts
213
Chips
0
thank you for your answers, they're some different and all interesting. Some of them I can agree absolutely, others in part.
 
Viera56

Viera56

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Total posts
93
Awards
1
Chips
19
The limit is your wallet, because when it is empty for sure you will adopt a line that seeks survival. Of course this should not affect your game to the point of ignoring the favorable spots for fear of losing. The mixture that is the key to success.
 
Jester36rus

Jester36rus

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Total posts
213
Chips
0
Oh! Here it is! I just have been lost 1M freeroll at 75 509 position! )))) My AA becames the set on the flop, I had not so big stack so here was all-in on flop, and opp has Q3s (!). than turn and river appears to be his cards. And what I was needed to do? Was I needed to fold the set of aces on flop when there was not some really dro on the board? You'll say bad beat, but the same may happens eventually.
 
A

AhiRaviv

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Total posts
20
Chips
0
Making stacks!!!

Trying to survive will always put you at a small stack position..
 
allinraw

allinraw

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Total posts
222
Chips
0
I hate when you make the final table and you are short stacked..
 
Top