Making money from SNG's

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colepure

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Hey guys, I've been lurking on this site for a while, and finally decided to sign-up.

I've been playing poker for quite a few years (usually live tournaments and cash games with friends), and I've decided to see how well I do online. I signed up to pokerstars and I've been playing a lot of cheap SNG's - typically 180/90 man games with 50c-1$ buyins. I've been playing really tight, making it typically to the top %20 but never getting any further, because it's just full of crazy players going all-in with terrible cards. I can't seem to do any better because its just an all-in fest.

So my question is, is it possible to actually do consistently well against players like this/in tournaments like this? If so, what is the best approach? and if not, what is typically the best types of games to play online? (for making money)
 
kidkvno1

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You'er not really going to get ITM in 90/180 man SNG's, Esp at such a low buy-in, If i remember right the blinds are alot faster.
I've played them when Stars was letting US players on and found them hard to place in. I would say to stick to 9 man SNG's and see how they go for you.
 
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colepure

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You'er not really going to get ITM in 90/180 man SNG's, Esp at such a low buy-in, If i remember right the blinds are alot faster.
I've played them when Stars was letting US players on and found them hard to place in. I would say to stick to 9 man SNG's and see how they go for you.

What is the reason for that? Just all the crazy players? I'm avoiding the "hyper" or "turbo" types, so the blinds aren't too bad.

Also, thanks for the tip, I'll try some 9 man SNG's then :)
 
kidkvno1

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What is the reason for that? Just all the crazy players? I'm avoiding the "hyper" or "turbo" types, so the blinds aren't too bad.

Also, thanks for the tip, I'll try some 9 man SNG's then :)
Just all of them Crazy players. With the low buy-in they can just open up a new one and donk their way in to the money, or out of the game.
It's just like trying to play a freeroll and cashing IMO. Others may not see it the same way on here.

9 Man SNG's are the way to go, for starting a BR :)
 
Reptar7

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When I used to be able to play on Stars, I found that the 45 person SNG's were the best to play. They start at like 25 cents and go up from there. I also made a lot of $ in the DON's and 9 person SNG's.

Graph of SNG's (1600 games, $500 profit):
 

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PattyR

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Thats a very nice looking graph Reptar!!!! sickkk

I'm assuming you multi tabled? if so how many tables did ya run...
 
MediaBLITZ

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Cole,
You are just going to have to experiment a little and find your groove. I totally suck at ST SnG but like Reptar found my niche with the MTT 45 man. I know guys who swear by the MTT 180. Honestly can't tell you why. You'd think a guy who can profit on MTT could handle a STT - but we're all wired different.

Hell maybe for you it's not tourney at all but cash? Whatever it is, committ some time to it - don't bounce around. Spend some time on one and work at cracking it - drop in with hand samples and such and you'll get some help.

Side note - I went after the 45 man aggressively because the local live games are usually limited to 40 - figured it was the best practice. Maybe that answers why I suck at the STT - I need more at stake.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Cole,
You are just going to have to experiment a little and find your groove. I totally suck at ST SnG but like Reptar found my niche with the MTT 45 man. I know guys who swear by the MTT 180. Honestly can't tell you why. You'd think a guy who can profit on MTT could handle a STT - but we're all wired different.

A good poker player will be able to profit at any micro/small stakes poker game.
 
Colbefc

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I dont agree that a good player should be able to profit at any micro game, I tried the PS 45 man SNG's for a challenge on here and I sucked, they just dont suit me, as soon as I changed to the 9man and 6 man I started winning.
Everyone is better at one type of poker, NL Limit PLO OHL SNG or MTT and my advice is to find which one you are best at asnd stick to it.
This can be annoying cos I love playing PLO but I just cant win consistantly at it but at SNG's I can so I stick to SNG.
 
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I dont agree that a good player should be able to profit at any micro game, I tried the PS 45 man SNG's for a challenge on here and I sucked, they just dont suit me, as soon as I changed to the 9man and 6 man I started winning.
Everyone is better at one type of poker, NL Limit PLO OHL SNG or MTT and my advice is to find which one you are best at asnd stick to it.
This can be annoying cos I love playing PLO but I just cant win consistantly at it but at SNG's I can so I stick to SNG.

I stand by saying a good player will be able to win at whatever they play, they'd just have to readjust their game. I could play any game type with any field number and turn a profit.

MediaBlitz what factors are there that stop somebody being able to win? It's a simple case of re-evaluating your game to make it optimal in the game type you play.
 
jordanbillie

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Blue, I agree that a great poker player is able to win at any game, but in the OP's case, he seems new to the game/online. So, from your experience, what game would you recommend for a new, micro stakes player?
 
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BlueNowhere

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Blue, I agree that a great poker player is able to win at any game, but in the OP's case, he seems new to the game/online. So, from your experience, what game would you recommend for a new, micro stakes player?

Anything that doesn't have the word hyper in is generally good for new players.
 
radman

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agreat poker play will win at any table.is a true statement. but we are for the most part not great players. At best most (im still working on being good)are good players. With that said people Ive talked with people I know and from my own experience as well. All say same thing. We found that there are certain games that click. Certain tourneys you just cant do anything to win. They are in same buyin/payouts range as the other games ($2-$11) only difference is time of day. SNG's I do ok in in 9 ppl 45 ppl but not the 18 ppl one. I consistantly lose.
Found the best thing to do was find your own nitch. Stick with those and build a br and experiment occasionaly with others
 
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BlueNowhere

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agreat poker play will win at any table.is a true statement. but we are for the most part not great players. At best most of us are good players. With that said people Ive talked with people I know and from my own experience as well. Say th same thing. We found that there are certain games that click. Certain tourneys you just cant do anything to win. They are in same buyin/payouts range as other games ($2-$11) only difference is time of day. SNG's do ok in in 9 ppl 45 ppl but not the 18 ppl one. I consistantly lose.
Found the best thing to do was find your own nitch. Stick with those and build a br and experiment occasionaly with others

You don't need to be a great player to beat every game type. I don't class myself as a great player at all yet I'm confident I'd win at any game type at small stakes and below if I decided to play them. wtf is a nitch as well? I presume you mean niche.
 
Poker Orifice

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I've been playing poker for quite a few years (usually live tournaments and cash games with friends), and I've decided to see how well I do online. I signed up to pokerstars and I've been playing a lot of cheap SNG's - typically 180/90 man games with 50c-1$ buyins. < how many do you consider to be 'alot'? I've been playing really tight, making it typically to the top %20 but never getting any further, because it's just full of crazy players going all-in with terrible cards. I can't seem to do any better because its just an all-in fest. Are these 'turbo' structure? Also, what you assume to be 'crazy players' might not be the case. In later levels of a game like this, you simply must be willing to shove wide (in right spots) in order to take down blinds/antes. You NEED to maintain a stack that has FoldEquity.
Lots of stuff I could write here about playin' 180's (turbo's & non-turbos) &/or the 90's And they're actually a GREAT format/game to run with a good ROI in (lots of the winning regs. in these games have EXCELLENT ROI's, far higher than the STT-SNG regs. (< 9man, 10man, 6man SNG's). You'll see some players on your tables in the $3-$7 buyins with $10k+ profit in them.
There's also ALOT of players who do well in the Tubo180's but these games can have Large bankroll swings (you must be rolled well to play in them, ie. 100-200 buyins & MUST know optimal SS play, Shove/Fold game if you hope to do well).

So my question is, is it possible to actually do consistently well against players like this/in tournaments like this? < IF you're assuming that they're bad players.. then of course is obv. answer.
To me it sounds like you're playing 'Turbo' format & aren't very experienced with SS play (could be many other leaks too obviously).
'IF' you're planning on playing in more of these games (90's & 180's) I'd suggest reading a couple of 180man Strategy Guides (can easily be found on the interwebz) & then post some HH's here on Cardschat.
You'er not really going to get ITM in 90/180 man SNG's, Esp at such a low buy-in, If i remember right the blinds are alot faster.
I've played them when Stars was letting US players on and found them hard to place in. I would say to stick to 9 man SNG's and see how they go for you.
9man's might be a good spot to get started out on.
Just all of them Crazy players. With the low buy-in they can just open up a new one and donk their way in to the money, or out of the game.
It's just like trying to play a freeroll and cashing IMO. Others may not see it the same way on here.

9 Man SNG's are the way to go, for starting a BR :)
So we don't want to have 'crazy players' on our tables? Personally I like havin' a few monkeys on the tables (pretty sure that's where our longterm profit comes from)
 
MediaBLITZ

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MediaBlitz what factors are there that stop somebody being able to win? It's a simple case of re-evaluating your game to make it optimal in the game type you play.

Jeez I thought you would never ask - now pay attention - the other factor I am refering to is... wait for it....

GIVING A RAT'S ASS.

As you should know though, I have gone on the record before as saying, (paraphrased), "It's a simple case of re-evaluating your game to make it optimal in the game type you play." Or I think as I put it - adjust to their play. But if you don't take it seriously it's very hard to do. I could take the 45 man seriously because my end goal was bigger game. I had no goal for STT - isn't that sad? So it's not case of can't as much as won't.
 
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Aldito

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Yeah if you can beat $1 MTTs of course you have the ability to beat $1 STTs or $2nl if you spend a little bit of time finding out the difference between the games.

Same crap players in all of them...
 
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BlueNowhere

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Jeez I thought you would never ask - now pay attention - the other factor I am refering to is... wait for it....

GIVING A RAT'S ASS.

As you should know though, I have gone on the record before as saying, (paraphrased), "It's a simple case of re-evaluating your game to make it optimal in the game type you play." Or I think as I put it - adjust to their play. But if you don't take it seriously it's very hard to do. I could take the 45 man seriously because my end goal was bigger game. I had no goal for STT - isn't that sad? So it's not case of can't as much as won't.

I put "will be able to" and you put "sometimes there are other factors"

Not giving a rats ass is not a factor that will make you not able to make a profit as you are able, you just can't be bothered. So you haven't even named one factor that will stop a good player being able to (not actually profiting, just being able enough to) yet you said there a several yet you have yet to name one, let alone two or more.
 
MediaBLITZ

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I put "will be able to" and you put "sometimes there are other factors"

Not giving a rats ass is not a factor that will make you not able to make a profit as you are able, you just can't be bothered. So you haven't even named one factor that will stop a good player being able to (not actually profiting, just being able enough to) yet you said there a several yet you have yet to name one, let alone two or more.
Look, I set it up as a joke and you got caught. As I said, my position on this is already in the record and it's the same as yours. Just becasue you miss your butt buddy Cali you gotta start something elsewhere? Chill dude.

And actually I do think the amount you care is directly related to the amount you are willing to work - so yeah I gotta say it is a factor of whether or not you will be successful.
 
kidkvno1

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So we don't want to have 'crazy players' on our tables? Personally I like havin' a few monkeys on the tables (pretty sure that's where our longterm profit comes from)
I don't mind having them in 9 max SNG's. Once you take them out, you are good.


Blue
Not all players can win at ring, MTT, SNG's, and DON sng's.
I did real good at rush poker. But 9 max ring not so good.
 
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sootedjokers

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Your shoving ranges sounds way too tight at these late stages. It's a red flag if the field appears to aggressive in a short stacked stage of a sng. In general, the field doesn't understand how loose you can profitably open shove. Look for spots to open shove <10 BB with suited connectors and above from late middle and late position. see what happens and you might have a revelation that the other players aren't playing that aggressive afterall

i think 27 and 45 man SNGs are the best place to build a roll for a newbie.
 
duggs

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i sometimes fill up tables with 180 turbos between 8-15 buy in, they are all good, just have to adjust your midstack game and be stack size aware, constantly looking for steal and resteal opportunities. honestly feel they are the best stepping stone into MTTs i suggest reevaluating based on stack sizes, >20bb effective and you dont really ever want to play postflop, >14bb eff and you want to def be shove or folding. 15-22bb makes for the ideal 3bet shove stack size.

when i first started out i kept trying to win a 4.50 180 man for about 2 days, if you struggle with agg play then reg speed is def the way to go.
 
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BlueNowhere

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I don't mind having them in 9 max SNG's. Once you take them out, you are good.


Blue
Not all players can win at ring, MTT, SNG's, and DON sng's.
I did real good at rush poker. But 9 max ring not so good.
No not all players can. All good players can though. It's a simple case of understanding.
 
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colepure

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Wow, thanks for the responses. This has definitely given me a lot to think about.

I stand by saying a good player will be able to win at whatever they play, they'd just have to readjust their game. I could play any game type with any field number and turn a profit.

MediaBlitz what factors are there that stop somebody being able to win? It's a simple case of re-evaluating your game to make it optimal in the game type you play.

I realise that I would have to re-adjust my play to do better in the tournaments that I have been entering, but I really just don't see how. I'm not exaggerating when I say that when these games get down to the final 20% of players, every single hand, 1 or more players will go all-in, pre-flop.

The only strategy I have is to wait for a massive hand and push all-in pre-flop. A few times my AA/KK has been smashed by 7,2 offsuit. This isn't poker, it's just pure luck. If I don't do this, I will get eaten alive by the blinds.
 
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