Making money from 6 max SNG

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Mitchel Cornodelli

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How do people make solid profit from 6 max SNG turbo or don games???
I have been playing them for ages and am still back where i started. I play a mix of 6 max turbo and don at $2.
I genuinely struggle to find ways how to improve my game.
90% of the times i bust out is when i make it to the bubble (which is almost every game) but i either get bad beat or i lose 50/50s or i end up with a me making a mandatory shove given the blind size and getting called by someone who has me dominated etc.
So is it actually profitable can someone tell me and is there anyone who is making regular money playing these games?
Thanks
 
bprpm

bprpm

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The first difference for the 9 full ring for 6 max, is in 6 max we play more hands, the big blins passes for us more times, so i need to play more hands, i play any ace for exemple,, but be carefull respect the 3 bet, if u don't had a good hand just fold... I play too a lot of suited conectores, conectors....
In the bubble, i use a lot of 3 bet light, because the people wants the money and they don't will lost chips without a good hand.. probaby if i had 56 off suited i'l 3 bet light the utg if i have more chips than that player
bprpm
 
horizon12

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First you need to play fewer tables, 2-4 table is the maximum. If you often bust out on the bubble, I can assume that you are very much stealing, principally shove/fold, so you need to reduce the percentage of steal, and more min-raise.
 
dmtmatrix

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Hey man,

I'm more of a 9-10 handed cash game player than a 6-max player, but I too have had times where I was struggling to overcome sticking points and find out how to make my decisions more profitable. When I think of 6-max games and the structure it is quite different than a cash game because the blinds increase and IMO too quickly to wait for hands against weaker hands that will call raises and earn you chips (a style I would assume wouldn't net you much profit in a s-n-g's against decent players). Considering this; I would assume then that some advantage needs to be gained early in the tournament when the blinds are low and you can outplay people. I would start there... A way I'd try to gain an advantage early is by watching players' every interaction with their cards/opponents when it is their turn; their decisions, their tanking hands (middle pair, two pair through straights on flush boards, or ), their raise hands, do they pre-select fold online (not applicable live), do they think in hands where they will raise or fold or both etc. - get to know them quickly and figure out what them being involved in a hand is telling you and use their own thought process more than your cards to get an advantage in chips early. Not sure if this will help cause 6-max s-n-g is not my specialty, but it's an idea.
 
Poker Orifice

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First you need to play fewer tables, 2-4 table is the maximum. If you often bust out on the bubble, I can assume that you are very much stealing, principally shove/fold, so you need to reduce the percentage of steal, and more min-raise.

This is all based on assumption.
You don't know,... maybe the OP is only playing one table already???

If it's Turbo DoN's, chances are it is shove/fold on bubble.

How do you know they are stealing too often? (maybe they're folding too often & are blinding down too far, thereby reducing fold equity when needing to shove).

If I had to guess, I'm ASSUMING that you're assuming these things about the OP because this may (or still is) problems with your own game.
 
Poker Orifice

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YES it is possible to make money from 6max SNG's & DoN's.
DoNs (although boring) seem to be filled with players who are very clueless... just something about the payout that attracts the biggest donks &/or weakest players out there.

Try reading some DoN Strategy guides, or threads, or posts. Maybe you'll discover some fundamental errors you've been making.

Or try reading a SnG book. Collin Moshman's is decent, so is Phil Shaw's.
It'll give you a decent foundation anyways... easily enough to be consistently beating the micro SNG games online.
 
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WiZZiM

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90% of the times i bust out is when i make it to the bubble (which is almost every game) but i either get bad beat or i lose 50/50s or i end up with a me making a mandatory shove given the blind size and getting called by someone who has me dominated etc.

This is the most telling piece of information here. You are very likely to be playing too tight and too passive and not getting your money in enough to give yourself a chance at a bigger stack more often. While i understand cashing ITM is the most important thing in these game, it's very closely followed by making sure your money distribution is heavily weighted with first place finishes. With 6 max around an 18-20% 1st place distribution and a 16-20% 2nd place distribution is really important to be able to show profit in these games.

you can get this info with something like a HUD or sharkscope. But if you are only getting bad beats or losing 50/50's you are definitely playing too tight because you actually want to be putting bad beats on people yourself. So basically you are likely shoving too tight of a range, and not playing your stack sizes correctly.

But this is all just informed speculation, to be able to really help you we would need to be able to see games you have played, hud stats, any other type of info.

So your best bet if you really want to improve is to get some coaching from a poker video site, or pick up a book or two related to the games you are playing anything written by collin moshman would be a good place to start.
 
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WiZZiM

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This is all based on assumption.
You don't know,... maybe the OP is only playing one table already???

If it's Turbo DoN's, chances are it is shove/fold on bubble.

How do you know they are stealing too often? (maybe they're folding too often & are blinding down too far, thereby reducing fold equity when needing to shove).

If I had to guess, I'm ASSUMING that you're assuming these things about the OP because this may (or still is) problems with your own game.

+1

that was a pretty retarded assumption horizon. It's way more likely with the info given that he's playing too tight of a range and being left with a smaller stack on the bubble on average than his opponants. If that is the case, then it will lead to him bubbling more and having more 2nd place finishes. It's a pretty typical pattern you see with tight players who are not making money.

i did a post on it somewhere which i'll try and link.
 
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Akwind

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turbo sng has high var. and div.
so you swing will be hard up and down...
maybe you should try reg speed?
DONs got much tougher then before. field in general plays much better in sngs as well. most of the time you play vs 1-2 fishes and 2-3 regs
 
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Mitchel Cornodelli

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The first difference for the 9 full ring for 6 max, is in 6 max we play more hands, the big blins passes for us more times, so i need to play more hands, i play any ace for exemple,, but be carefull respect the 3 bet, if u don't had a good hand just fold... I play too a lot of suited conectores, conectors....
In the bubble, i use a lot of 3 bet light, because the people wants the money and they don't will lost chips without a good hand.. probaby if i had 56 off suited i'l 3 bet light the utg if i have more chips than that player
bprpm

if you're going to reply to my post please speak in english
 
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Mitchel Cornodelli

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This is all based on assumption.
You don't know,... maybe the OP is only playing one table already???

If it's Turbo DoN's, chances are it is shove/fold on bubble.

How do you know they are stealing too often? (maybe they're folding too often & are blinding down too far, thereby reducing fold equity when needing to shove).

If I had to guess, I'm ASSUMING that you're assuming these things about the OP because this may (or still is) problems with your own game.

i play between 6-8 sngs at one time
 
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Mitchel Cornodelli

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First you need to play fewer tables, 2-4 table is the maximum. If you often bust out on the bubble, I can assume that you are very much stealing, principally shove/fold, so you need to reduce the percentage of steal, and more min-raise.

no........ fewer tables means less money and if youre meaning that so i can pay attention to players to improve my results then no because i usually have a general idea of what the players are doing. Also min raising instead of shoving is stupid, because when i do push/fold its when i have 10bb or less.
So that is unhelpful
 
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WiZZiM

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no........ fewer tables means less money and if youre meaning that so i can pay attention to players to improve my results then no because i usually have a general idea of what the players are doing. Also min raising instead of shoving is stupid, because when i do push/fold its when i have 10bb or less.
So that is unhelpful

This isn't exactly true. Yes more tables should be more money and a higher $/hour, the thing you need to understand is that everyone has varying skill levels and means that you will only be able to play a certain amount of tables profitably. When i was first learning i played 1-2 tables, then grew to 4, then 6 etc. But i was always aware that my ROI would be dropping slightly as i added more tables, but it shouldn't be dropping dramatically.

I started out playing 9 mans, and i found that with 12 tables i was at my highest ROI, but whenever i loaded more than 15 at any given time, my ROI and $/hour would plummet. So with my skill level at that time, and my inabilibity to be able to control that many tables i foudn my ideal number of tables played, which is around 10-12.

There's two things i notice with people that multitable.

1. they find multitabling easy, and think they can play 10-30 tables. But what they inevitably end up doing is just hitting the fold button as fast as they can and missing alot of good profitable spots.

2. they add too many tables, they time out alot, get put under pressure by the amount of tables popping up, so again, they resort to folding alot, which changes their game to the point where their edge is again diminished.

So, basically, what you want to be able to do is play many tables, but play in a very similar way if you are just one tabling, sure you will have to change your game slightly to accomodate the amount of tables played and you will likely miss more spots, but you don't want to miss too many. TO be able to do that it's a slow progression and will depend on how much you are studying the game, the more you study the game the more overall knowledge you will have and you will be able to know what to do in common spots in SNG. IF you know what to do in alot of the common SNG spots, you will be able to play much faster without thinking about them as much, and then you can add many more tables.
 
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