making big folds & seeing the hand to showdown - the most overlooked skills in MTT s?

making big folds & seeing the hand to showdown - the most overlooked skills in MTT s?

I think where alot of players struggle to make the grade is the ability to fold big hands either early on in the hand -
or later on say like the turn or river comes big for the opponent and you hold 2 pair or a straight and they catch a flush or make a straight.

and even pre flop aswell, sometimes folding QQ or AK is a sensible option if your playing well and accumalating chips.

and also for me if your not willing to play the hand to showdown when the board is wet althoughtheir are plenty of outs they only have 2 cards and their is usually more chance of your hand holding than theirs improving,

So basically trying to protect your hand or getting involved in all ins on the flop with top pair etc.

its far better to run to showdown regardless of the board texture and then make your move in tournaments, rather than taking those all in risks either on the board or preflop.,

(im not saying dont bluff or re-pop what so ever but if you know what your doing postflop then you can tell the difference beetween a showdown hand and a good spot to ship)

especially if your a low stake mtt grinder you will have so many opportunities in which to be first in and to get payed off when you actually have a hand,
you can make so many chips simply by just being in the pots for cheap and being bet into when holding the obvious goods. rather than being one of the more desperate risk takers, calling off their top pair or draw.. or fallen in love with pocket pairs on a bad board.

thats just my feelings that many poker players are impulsed by good hands pre flop or making strong hands on the flop...
that they let this dictate their plays when in reality the hand is far from over and you should always be prepared to make a tough or a wise decision on the river,
should you be up against someone hard to beat, or with an actual hand.

cotta777 said:

its far better to run to showdown regardless of the board texture and then make your move in tournaments, rather than taking those all in risks either on the board or preflop.

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things get complicated if the donkey decides to shove his top pair against your over pair, you have to call and it doesn't end up with joy most of the time. for me at least .

letderbefish said:

things get complicated if the donkey decides to shove his top pair against your over pair, you have to call and it doesn't end up with joy most of the time. for me at least .

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yea bad beats are pretty common in freerolls large field turbo mtts, their is a huge difference in styles based on if its micro stake, low middle etc, standard or turbo/cash.

the advice would be better suited to a non turbo mtt or cash game with solid opponents,

with the donkeys coolering you, and bad loose play, you would be better off setting them up for a stacking, getting them out of position when you have hands etc betting into you.

one thing to remember if you do have the overpair and they have top pair, your making a profit long term with KK/AA but sometimes folding one pair - even aces is warranted
for example 3 ways in a pot straight and flush draw, facing a raise and re-raise on the flop

have to disagree with taking a hand all the way, have to take many things into account in a hand....most of the time we miss the flop and depending on villians play we need to make a decision whether to continue as cbet/double barrel bluff or value bet...obv if its a bluff then you dont want to be going all the way and sometimes thats what will happen.

AlfieAA said:

have to disagree with taking a hand all the way, have to take many things into account in a hand....most of the time we miss the flop and depending on villians play we need to make a decision whether to continue as cbet/double barrel bluff or value bet...obv if its a bluff then you dont want to be going all the way and sometimes thats what will happen.

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ofcourse if you have no showdown value or you have a good enough read by the flop then not advisable, really would be more specific if you have equity with the hand and the board basically we have the intention of cutting losses when marginal and winning pots if we can rep something come the turn/river,
i guess again this comes down to preferance but i find i can pick up pots i would never pick up and cut losses when marginal, avoid getting knocked out or stacked

Lately, in micro buy ins, in early stages when pots are small if I have a top pair type hand (or an overpair) I'll just check call the whole way unless the board goes extremely bad for my hand.

I would never advocate this line of play in later stages, or against better opponents but you wouldn't believe how many times this has paid off vs. the donkeys. Frequently they are betting 2nd pair or top pair crappy kicker the whole way. occasionally I save money because they had some wacky 2 pair...

cotta777 said:

i guess again this comes down to preferance but i find i can pick up pots i would never pick up and cut losses when marginal, avoid getting knocked out or stacked

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Agreed one pair hands are just one pair and even 2 pair, sometimes pitching these types of hands is essential to good poker strategy, survival becomes a better choice.
If for example you have an overpair on the turn and a passive fish decides to min raise you on the turn and fires big on the river. We know hes bad and spewy we could be well ahead here . But I couldnt justify the risk here in calling , if the donk is bluffing so be it , give him the money and charge him with interest when a better spot comes along.
If you think you have the edge in your game lower the variance because in the long run you will come out on top.

I gotta say the tournaments I've won, I have always been willing to lay down big hands to the obvious read on the other guy. You know when they have it often, at least sometimes for me I just keep reading people like a book, and you have to know when to conserve your chips, especially in a tournament.

I do think its an underrated skill. Poker is all about making the most of your made hands and losing the minimum. Of course theres bluffing in there too to make it complex, but losing little on your losing hands is huge. Money saved is money earned.

RNG said:

I do think its an underrated skill. Poker is all about making the most of your made hands and losing the minimum. Of course theres bluffing in there too to make it complex, but losing little on your losing hands is huge. Money saved is money earned.

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yes good point.

any dummy can make money when they have a strong hand.
what separates good players from average players is losing the minimum when they are 2nd best.