Low player cooperation (no check down)

Low player cooperation (no check down)

Recently I noticed a new trend while playing tournaments in the money.

Maybe it's just me but player cooperation is very low these days. (i.e. no check down when a short stack is allin)

Often I see people overbetting and trying to scare other players off the pot even if they have nothing to showdown. They allow the shortstack to survive. Seems like a -EV strategy.

yes i saw it too . on mtt no mercy ...specially big stacks who dont care if short stacks will beat them .

in satellites , you still see cooperation near bubble .

It could be +EV because short stack is likely to be desperate and have potentially bad hands you could beat with high card whereas while your air might be better than the other caller's air, you don't want to give them a chance to hit their outs. Usually a bad play though. Very situational.

I dont se the logic in that move, specially in the bubble, where only goal should be eliminating short stacks and with over bet you lowering the chances to kick shorts out. I see it often because im micro stake player and people do it all the time, most of them probably dont know about that unwritten rule thou

If you're a good player your goal is to keep the bubble going as long as possible.

Anything you can do to prevent someone else from realizing their equity in a pot is good.

baudib1 said:

If you're a good player your goal is to keep the bubble going as long as possible.

Anything you can do to prevent someone else from realizing their equity in a pot is good.

Click to expand...

Yeah it could be +EV but for me leaving ANY player in a game is playing with fire.

I've seen players come back and eliminate the one who preserved their life.

I myself came back in a medium field tourney from last position, allin on the bubble to winning the tournament.

So leaving a player with a chip and a chair can be deadly too.

Gorak said:

Yeah it could be +EV but for me leaving ANY player in a game is playing with fire.

I've seen players come back and eliminate the one who preserved their life.

I myself came back in a medium field tourney from last position, allin on the bubble to winning the tournament.

So leaving a player with a chip and a chair can be deadly too.

Click to expand...

Agree, I've seen on a bubble with only 1 player to be knocked out a small stack with about the size of an ante! get put all in by the blinds and suck out with kk vs AA then the next hand rather than checking down, mr aggro donk decided to force two of the others out of the hand when he had air which allowed the small stack to survive and even double up a couple of times and effect a lot of people in various ways before going out after about 4 others. Anything can happen in poker, especially around the bubble

Checking down is overdone. Certainly there are times to do it but people expect you to check down long before the bubble. The other day, in mid-tournament, there was an all-in and three of us other players in a hand. I had pocket Eights and flopped QUADS. So I bet about half the pot and this guy had steam coming out of his ears and called. I bet the turn and he folded and was about to yell at me and then he saw what I had and laughed.
The rule, to the extent that there is one, is not to _bluff_ into a dry side pot.
And, as has been pointed out, there are strategy reasons to do even that.

baudib1 said:

If you're a good player your goal is to keep the bubble going as long as possible.

Anything you can do to prevent someone else from realizing their equity in a pot is good.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

I've been given grief from less-experienced players on several occasions about not checking down, but my goal in a tournament (or SnG) is not to accomplish collective knockouts - it is to accumulate chips and win. Players really hate it when they call an all-in and then you go over-the-top, forcing their fold but making your hand equity in that now inflated pot much higher.

I remember one of the poker books referring to the concept as "hand-of'god" - you allow the shortstack to live on the bubble so you can accumulate a lot of chips collecting from the medium stacks, as they live in fear of being eliminated before the shortstack is eliminated. It's particularly effective in SnGs 4-handed, sitting as the chipleader.

True me to past in many tornes real money, do not look they are receivable and therefore to have a stack greatest start to bluff and 3 bet! the shorter stack, as you were saying before you is a trend that has been repeated time ago!