The loose big stacker on the left

The kind of player I have the most trouble with in tourneys is this type. He's the guy who built a big stack early on and he isn't folding. And he's directly on my left. How do you deal with these guys?

When I do get some strong starting hands then it's better but when I go card dead, it's really tough.

For example, earlier tonight in the Carbon freeroll fury this guy on my left kept calling off a decent portion of his stack to shoves with crap hands like K3 or 10 8, but wins, and keeps building up his stack, which only encourages him to play every hand.

So finally when the blinds were climbing and I was down to 5 big blinds on the btn and everyone folded down to me and I had A5os. I shoved it. He calls with TJ and hits two pairs and I was out. I cashed but it was a frustrating affair. I felt handcuffed cuz it was either shove or fold.

Is the only way to beat these guys just wing it and hope your decent hand holds up? I mean even a hand like AK, which I would shove everytime if I am down to 10 bbs or less, is very vulnerable.

You stated and I quote "kept calling off a decent portion of his stack to shoves with crap hands like K3 or 10 8, but wins, and keeps building up his stack". With that said, then avoid that guy. You will be his 99th victim if you fight with him.

well it sounds to me the guy on your left is extremely loose and aggro, and if he's shoving with hands like those he's a horrible player. I would wait for big hands like 99+ and AQs AK and limp...wait for him to raise...then put in a nice reraise if not all in....hope this helps

Yes, he is a horrible player. Why do you even have trouble with people like him? I rarely do. Just wait for your strong hands and play them aggressive, more than he does. Chances are when you get a good hand he will get a crappy one, doesnt work every time, but most of the time he does. When his stack start to diminish he will start to play tighter than he did before. Looks like he was controlling the table. The first thing that comes to mind against such player is to win 2 or 3 hands against him, which isnt a lot, since most of the times you will just be heads up against him if he plays as aggressive as you say, and then he will have no control whatsoever. When you see that he is aggressive, let him make the bets for you and think he is controlling you when he is not. Its easier to set a trap or something and lure him to all-in. So, dont try to take him out all the time, just wait for your big hands and do the magic. Good thing is, atleast in my oppinion, that it doesnt really matter if you got a position on him or you dont, because you know his next move already.

well he's going to call no matter what you have if its only 5 big blinds and hes stacked.. remember that.

also, play your cards the normal way that you would play them. don't look for value out of one particular player. singling out can definately have misfortune on your bankroll. if you consistently focus on one individual or value than you wont be on your game. remember that it is just an opportunity, not something deserved.

hope it helps!

Shove wider for value, embrace the catiance

blueskies said:

The kind of player I have the most trouble with in tourneys is this type. He's the guy who built a big stack early on and he isn't folding. And he's directly on my left. How do you deal with these guys?

When I do get some strong starting hands then it's better but when I go card dead, it's really tough.

For example, earlier tonight in the Carbon freeroll fury this guy on my left kept calling off a decent portion of his stack to shoves with crap hands like K3 or 10 8, but wins, and keeps building up his stack, which only encourages him to play every hand.

So finally when the blinds were climbing and I was down to 5 big blinds on the btn and everyone folded down to me and I had A5os. I shoved it. He calls with TJ and hits two pairs and I was out. I cashed but it was a frustrating affair. I felt handcuffed cuz it was either shove or fold.

Is the only way to beat these guys just wing it and hope your decent hand holds up? I mean even a hand like AK, which I would shove everytime if I am down to 10 bbs or less, is very vulnerable.

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These sorts of people vastly annoy me as well--but that's exactly what they count on. They don't get that lucky every time, but when they do, they want you to get mad at them and either call for all your chips or shove all-in into them in a spot where you would not make that move against a more reasonable player. Ignore his luck, tune him out, wait for a premium pair, or some other opportunity where even if he hits a hand, he'd have to hit a hand ridiculously to win. If he does get a ridiculous hit--that's really freaking dumb, but that's also poker, and you'll be going out knowing that you did everything you could to not let him get his way.

As often happens in poker, there's no simple solution. It's hard having an active big stack to your left. There's no way around that. Sure, you can wait for a premium, but that only works when you're dealt one, which is only a relatively small minority of the time.

That said here are a couple of general tips. Try not to get so short-stacked that doubling up leaves your situation only slightly improved. For instance, if you blind down to 5bb then double up, you're still stuck in shove or fold territory, plus your fold equity hasn't significantly increased.

Once you get much below about 20bb, try to avoid playing any hand unless you're willing to play for your stack. This doesn't mean waiting for a premium. Since the maniac is playing a wide range, it comes down to how far ahead you feel you want to be in order to be willing to play for your stack.

hffjd2000 said:

You stated and I quote "kept calling off a decent portion of his stack to shoves with crap hands like K3 or 10 8, but wins, and keeps building up his stack". With that said, then avoid that guy. You will be his 99th victim if you fight with him.

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wait someone is willing to spew and your response is play tighter?


,.........

let that sink in

The problem in the fury freeroll is that the blinds go up every 5 minutes so there wasn't a lot of time to wait for a good hand.

Also, I was right near the bubble so I wasn't keen to confront him until I had made it into the money. But by that time, I was down to less than 10 blinds. And with antes, I was soon down to my last stand and had to shove with A5.

It seems to me sometimes that no matter how well I try to play against someone like that, they are on a run and you simply have to wait till his luck runs out. it doesnt usually take long. Once they do lose a hand its usually not long before they wind up busting out. I just position myself if possible to take advantage of the end of his run. All the logic in the world, like physics and black holes, goes to pot when when luck is with someone.

Vhyre said:

It seems to me sometimes that no matter how well I try to play against someone like that, they are on a run and you simply have to wait till his luck runs out. it doesnt usually take long. Once they do lose a hand its usually not long before they wind up busting out. I just position myself if possible to take advantage of the end of his run. All the logic in the world, like physics and black holes, goes to pot when when luck is with someone.

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you cant control run outs so don't worry about them focus on be an equity favorite and also maybe flat more and play a tighter range postflop then him ( ideally in position)