Living off poker

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Chipsteal_jj

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Hi
I will be playing poker a lot in the next 2-3 years and I want to know a couple of things before I can start of doing that. First what I want-
1. To make 2000-4000 a month playing poker.
2. To play 3 to 5 days a week.
3. To play 4 to 8 hours a day.

Some things about me-
1. I play SNGs mostly. 9players mostly, sometimes 45/90.
2. I play on pokerstars. (ftp sometimes).
3. I am an average/above average player.
4. I can play upto 3 tables max.

I want to know -
1. What will be the right bankroll to start with? (the minimum that can be enough for what I want. I'll have to decide this and will put 20-30% more just to be sure.)
2. What games should I play more?
3. Does grinding at poker make you lose the love for the game as it feels more like a job?
4. Any other things that I should keep in mind?

Thank you all :))
Chipsteal_JJ
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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1. To make 2000-4000 a month playing poker.

Before or after living expenses? Do you plan on paying taxes? Do your expenses include retirement savings, insurances (medical, dental, house/apt, car)?

Do you have a source to add-on to bankroll if needed?
 
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Chipsteal_jj

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Before or after living expenses? Do you plan on paying taxes? Do your expenses include retirement savings, insurances (medical, dental, house/apt, car)?

Do you have a source to add-on to bankroll if needed?
2000-4000 is including rent,food,etc.

In my country tax is applicable on winnings over usd500. I still have to look into this more and see how it works, if it is for one win or overall win in a day/week/month.

Insurance, rent etc will be done from the 2000-4000 income.

I have other sources of income but add-on will wary depending on how much I need.
 
PapaC

PapaC

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$2000 to $4000 a month will take a big BR to do that. So what amount do you plan to deposit? What blinds do you intend to play? Maybe $5/$10 to start with. Do you have experience playing at that level.? I see what you want, but I don't see any real plans you have in order to do what you are saying. How many days and hours you intend to play has very little to do with winning at any level. It is an up and down game and you need to know when to stop when it's going south, and when to get out when you are winning . There is so much to learn to play poker, and you can't take it all in at once, but you can take a little at a time, learn it, and use it at the tables GL to you.
 
MattRyder

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We've played together a couple of times (in the $ 0.33 Storm satellites I believe). I can tell that you're aggressive, but I'm not sure how good you are overall. I do know that you're playing micro-stakes though, and if you only feel that you're average/above-average (at that level) then you would want to test your skill at the higher stakes before committing to a long-term career goal in poker.

Personally, I love poker but hate grinding. 3 tables at a time isn't much, although it is also the most that I can do at a time. If I were pursuing a career in poker I would focus on one tournament/SnG at a time but at the higher stakes so that each win is worth a lot more. That's the only way that I could continue to enjoy playing and make money at the same time (if I were good enough to make a living at it in the first place, which I'm not).

800px-Scott_Clements.jpg
 
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Chipsteal_jj

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Yes I play micro stakes and I still have a long way to go, that is why I said 2-3 years since I have a lot to learn and I am just looking for what the base to be a professional grinder for me would be like. I have come up with something-

Avg ROI- 5% (SNG)
Avg Hours a week - 25

Income needed - 2000/month
so,
2000/25x4 =20/hour

with 5% ROI,
$30SNG x 4 tables/ hr= 6/hr
:(
Is there something I am doing wrong? I don't to add more hours in, even with 30 hours a week, I'll be making half of what I aim. Playing higher stakes will reduce ROI.
What options do I have to be able to reach the goal I want?
 
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Chipsteal_jj

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Should I focus more on MTTs instead of STTs? Can the ROI be better? Should I go higher stakes?
 
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wilTurkey56

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Hi

I will be playing poker a lot in the next 2-3 years and I want to know a couple of things before I can start of doing that. First what I want-

1. To make 2000-4000 a month playing poker.

2. To play 3 to 5 days a week.

3. To play 4 to 8 hours a day.



Some things about me-

1. I play SNGs mostly. 9players mostly, sometimes 45/90.

2. I play on pokerstars. (ftp sometimes).

3. I am an average/above average player.

4. I can play upto 3 tables max.



I want to know -

1. What will be the right bankroll to start with? (the minimum that can be enough for what I want. I'll have to decide this and will put 20-30% more just to be sure.)

2. What games should I play more?

3. Does grinding at poker make you lose the love for the game as it feels more like a job?

4. Any other things that I should keep in mind?



Thank you all :))

Chipsteal_JJ


2-4 profit? Or turnover? 😂
 
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wilTurkey56

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Yes I play micro stakes and I still have a long way to go, that is why I said 2-3 years since I have a lot to learn and I am just looking for what the base to be a professional grinder for me would be like. I have come up with something-

Avg ROI- 5% (SNG)
Avg Hours a week - 25

Income needed - 2000/month
so,
2000/25x4 =20/hour

with 5% ROI,
$30SNG x 4 tables/ hr= 6/hr
:(
Is there something I am doing wrong? I don't to add more hours in, even with 30 hours a week, I'll be making half of what I aim. Playing higher stakes will reduce ROI.
What options do I have to be able to reach the goal I want?


If you make that (net) I will offer to double it, providing you return the odds?
 
bushy_lufc

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I do not mean to sound harsh but its likely not going to happen so before you quit your job, please do not.

Read some books. Colin Moshman's SNG book is good.
Watch a lot of videos online.
Get a lot of software liek SNG wizrad for example.
Put in a lot of volume and a lot of study then maybe in 3 years you could be playing medium-high stakes STT's but you'll need 8 tables minimum.
 
dan5379

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In my humble opinion Mattryder was on the money there when he gave U advice with the higher SNG'S.

Gotta commend what your doing, if i was in your position, i would play SNG - $55 to $75. This, if you cash and succeed in grinding @ this level, will be worth the effort. Personally i wouldn't play three @a time. I would stick to one & come away with a smile on my face. There are good videos on Youtube about SNG"S

All the best to you and i hope you find the answers that you are looking for. Dan. Peace!
 
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Chipsteal_jj

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I do not mean to sound harsh but its likely not going to happen so before you quit your job, please do not.

Read some books. Colin Moshman's SNG book is good.
Watch a lot of videos online.
Get a lot of software liek SNG wizrad for example.
Put in a lot of volume and a lot of study then maybe in 3 years you could be playing medium-high stakes STT's but you'll need 8 tables minimum.

I do not plan to quit my job at all. I have side businesses with several more new ones that will help me make some money.
Thanks for your advice, I'll definitely check out Colin. I plan to invest in a software soon but rn I'll stick to play without one.
 
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paulsmall007

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Yea sounds like u should do like what's been said before. Up ur stakes and play one table at the higher buy in. Making an incline in skill level is a whole new ball game added stress of the buy in needs time to get acclimated. And getting comfortable with the competition increase.
 
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WiZZiM

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Hey

Don't take what i'm about to say the wrong way, but i'm being realistic with what i see, you may think you are better but as someone who has done what you are talking about before i can tell you it aint easy, it's a long hard road to be able to be good enough to pull the $20/h figure you want.


Yes I play micro stakes and I still have a long way to go, that is why I said 2-3 years since I have a lot to learn and I am just looking for what the base to be a professional grinder for me would be like. I have come up with something-

Avg ROI- 5% (SNG)
Avg Hours a week - 25

Income needed - 2000/month
so,
2000/25x4 =20/hour

with 5% ROI,
$30SNG x 4 tables/ hr= 6/hr
:(
Is there something I am doing wrong? I don't to add more hours in, even with 30 hours a week, I'll be making half of what I aim. Playing higher stakes will reduce ROI.
What options do I have to be able to reach the goal I want?

Firstly you have to question if you are even able to achieve a positive ROI in the $15+ games, you are currently playing microstakes, if so what games do you play, how many games do you have on your current buyin level and what ROI are you making? You can't simply say that you expect to make 5% ROI in the $30 games, it's basically only acheiveable to the absolute best at that buyin level, anyone else 1-3% would be considered crushing it.


Hi
I will be playing poker a lot in the next 2-3 years and I want to know a couple of things before I can start of doing that. First what I want-
1. To make 2000-4000 a month playing poker.You can work that out once you have a rough idea of what you make at your current level. Once you move up in buyins a few things happen. your skill edge diminishes and your variance increases because of that. But on the upside you get slightly better rake and rakeback deals as you go. So once you know what you can make per hour now we can get into working out what ROI and games per day etc you might need to play to be able to make decent coin.
2. To play 3 to 5 days a week.
3. To play 4 to 8 hours a day.Both of these is all good, however it's much easier to just put that into writing, it's much harder to be able to do that with a job also. The thing with SNG is that there are certain times of the day which are best for grinding and it's very much in your best interests to be able to play those times, so for me that was around 4am start to take advantage of the best games running for that day. Just something else you might not have though about...

Some things about me-
1. I play SNGs mostly. 9players mostly, sometimes 45/90.9 player games? how long is the average game run time? that is another factor you need to think about, if it's reg speed you are looking at over an hour per game which puts a massive toll on your $/hour you will generally have a better ROI but worse $/hour playing the reg games.
2. I play on pokerstars. (ftp sometimes).
3. I am an average/above average player.
4. I can play upto 3 tables max.This is a big deal in SNG, you will pretty much have to be able to play at least 10 at once minimum, if you play lower stakes you will have to be able to play 20ish at once realistically, if you playreally high stakes you can get away with 6 tables, but they are so much harder to beat.

I want to know -
1. What will be the right bankroll to start with? (the minimum that can be enough for what I want. I'll have to decide this and will put 20-30% more just to be sure.)depends on the buyin what ROI you could expect
2. What games should I play more?that's up to you, but games like turbos and hypers are much better for $/hour and also much better for rakeback advantages. In your figures above you have not mentioned at all bonuses and rakeback, you need to look into this as it's where a lot of the income comes from in SNG, since stars has changed it's program it's less than what it used to be, much less which is a real issue for lower level grinders unfortunately, but i haven't really done research on this, so i'm just assuming a lot of stuff here.
3. Does grinding at poker make you lose the love for the game as it feels more like a job?depends but yes imo you have to treat it like a job. I still love talking about poker, but i don't really play anymore as treating it like a job does take the element of fun away from it. but that's just my experience with it, others have differant stories to tell.
4. Any other things that I should keep in mind?fwiw i'll throw some numbers at you. I used to play the 9man games a long while back, i made around 12% ROI in the $3 games, playing average around 15 games at a time i made around 11-13/h this way playing the turbo games with a rough game time average of 40ish minutes.

Moved up to play the $6 games played around 12-15 tables and made around the 8% roi mark which netted around 15/h

I briefly moved up to playing the $15 games, didnt have a huge sample, but was making around 20/h playing 12 games at once, rough ROI of around 5-7%

The skill jump in these games and also the amount of variance was huge in each jump. In the $3 games i rarely had downswings at all, in the $15s losing $200 in one session was pretty normal. The amount of work i needed to do to beat each level was pretty incredible, so not only was it table time i played, it was study time and that will be somehting you will have to factor in as well. If you have a really good training plan setup you can make the most of your time, however it's pretty hard to create that yourself not really knowing what to expect.



nk you all :))
Chipsteal_JJ

Hope this gives you some insight.
 
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el Jefe

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Your math is really off.

If you earn 5% ROI in $30 sng's then you'll average $1.50 in profit per game.

Each game takes about an hour and you can play 3 at a time so that is $4.50 per hour.

You'd need 444 hours of grinding to make $2000 at that rate. So you are looking at about 111 hours per week.

That doesn't take into account taxes, the increased difficulty at that level, or reduced efficiency as a result of fatigue.
 
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