limping with rags

i play 5.50 stt on ps. often usually early i will limp in from sbwith rags, 72s is my favorite. i do this based on pot odds. often po. can be as high as 11 to 1. if i miss the flop i fold to first bet. the hands i've won at showdown often get verry negitive talk in the chat box. does anyone here have an opion on this play? the chat really doesent bother me.

Well, I like the idea of it, especially because you say that you do it in the early stages and from sb. If it was from any other position I think it would be very stupid, but why not take the chance in the early stage from sb.
I like that, even though I wouldn't do it myself

Regards!

Yeah, I don't mind that play. I'd rather go with two low or two middle cards; when you play something like K-3, you're praying for two pair or trips, and even then it can be tough to get paid for it.

Also, it seems a popular play is for the big blind to make an aggressive bet after it's been limped around to him. It's only 1/2bb you're losing there, so probably still worth taking the chance.

On the other hand, another way to look at it is that for the price of folding the small blind, you are buying the button on the next deal!

In my opinion i would rather just fold and save my chips. Sure, sometimes you might flop a hand but i dont think you will be flopping anything worth playing the hand often enough to even make it worth it. If it were me i would just fold the garbage and save my chips for when i can actually stack off with a good hand and double up.

limping

Atleast noone is going to figure you holding 2/7....until NOW!

yea i cant recall how many times i got beat out with 72 when i had aces in my hand, that is not supposed to happen

baseballfool2231 said:

yea i cant recall how many times i got beat out with 72 when i had aces in my hand, that is not supposed to happen

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honestly...i cant remember anytime i lost with AA to 72....ever

So long as u make the marginal decisions post flop correctly most of the time theres nothing wrong with it

buzzz45 said:

i play 5.50 stt on ps. often usually early i will limp in from sbwith rags, 72s is my favorite. i do this based on pot odds. often po. can be as high as 11 to 1. if i miss the flop i fold to first bet. the hands i've won at showdown often get verry negitive talk in the chat box. does anyone here have an opion on this play? the chat really doesent bother me.

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It all depends on so many things. If there are enough limpers and your hand had promise, maybe, but 2 7? IDK, I am throwing trash where it belongs. If you use any kind of tracker, look at your % in the SB, and that will let you know if its a good idea. I can imagine that if you are limping a lot with trash, your SB is -ev, and that should tell you something. I mean, it depends on your post flop ability, and how you are viewed at the table, but early its gonna be a long term losing move to limp with trash IMO. Just cause you got lucky a few times does not make that a +ev move. But as I said, look at a large sample of games and see if you are + or -ev in the SB, and that will be your answer.

fletchdad said:

It all depends on so many things. If there are enough limpers and your hand had promise, maybe, but 2 7? IDK, I am throwing trash where it belongs. If you use any kind of tracker, look at your % in the SB, and that will let you know if its a good idea. I can imagine that if you are limping a lot with trash, your SB is -ev, and that should tell you something. I mean, it depends on your post flop ability, and how you are viewed at the table, but early its gonna be a long term losing move to limp with trash IMO. Just cause you got lucky a few times does not make that a +ev move. But as I said, look at a large sample of games and see if you are + or -ev in the SB, and that will be your answer.

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Early on when the blinds are basically irrelevant to your stack so the ev on it will more than likely be positive considering the rewards are much greater than the risk

it costs u little with the rewards being potentially massive

when blinds are significant obviously this changes

Stefanicov said:

Early on when the blinds are basically irrelevant to your stack so the ev on it will more than likely be positive considering the rewards are much greater than the risk

it costs u little with the rewards being potentially massive

when blinds are significant obviously this changes

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Blinds are NEVER irrelevant, merely lower or higher. Throwing away even the smallest blind with out any plan except for "maybe I get lucky" is a major leak IMO.

1. you are mainly folding to a bad flop for you to any raise.

2.You are not getting paid for your raises as much as a good flop for you is often a bad flop for the others, who are doing as you and limping with crap and folding mainly.

3.Just as many endless possibilities for disguised strong hands for your opponents, so your monster is only a monster if it is the total nutz. Dont forget, you lose the most money on your good hands. I hope you understand what I mean here.

4. You are folding to any raise - and re raise - that comes PF.

As I stated, to know whether this is a +ev move or not, you need to look at a good sized sample of hands where you have done this, see what you invested, and what your ROI in this particular situation was. Then you will know. Simply to say "its a cheap bet, maybe it pays off" (or "it will more than likely be positive") is not good enough reason to do this. Many players I have spoken to about stats on position, claim that the blinds are their largest losing spot.

Are you just assuming, or can you post some "28% +ROI in SB when limping" stats or whatever. These are easy to see if you have stat collecting software, otherwise you need to do it by hand, and you may want to consider this, unless you do this all the time and are winning a lot. Then, hey, good luck Let me know in a year if it still works that good.

The part u are forgetting is that he only does it when the pot odds say it is correct

So basically u are getting the odds to call and if u hit u win a monster and also u lose very little and its an easy fold if you miss

There is nothing wring with this

Stefanicov said:

The part u are forgetting is that he only does it when the pot odds say it is correct

So basically u are getting the odds to call and if u hit u win a monster and also u lose very little and its an easy fold if you miss

There is nothing wring with this

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"Shrugs"

OK, whatever. Pot odds are one of the things to consider, not the only thing. And to let the odds be the deciding factor, hmmmm. Position, players still to act, players already in the pot, reads on those players, what chances your cards have of drawing vs how many in the pot, and still to maybe call - you are giving everyone else better odds with potentially better hands if you limp early - The lost equity can be broad. On an all in with the nutz, on later stages when cards are not coming or holding up, those 50-60 chips may make a difference and so on. If it works for him, fine. I used to do exactly the same thing, also when the odds were good, and it was -ev for me. I think these types of plays need to be monitored over a large sample of hands, amount paid vs. amount won, is what I am saying. No harm in trying out anything, but keep tabs on the results. I also asked about this play when I was doing it, and was advised by good winning players that this was a bad move (which caused me to want to check my stats to see if it REALLY was, with me, yes, SB-ev). Put trash where it belongs. As an occasional play, its always good to mix up how you play. But to make this a standard weapon in your poker tool kit, as it sounds like OP does when he is getting the odds, is not something I would advise someone to do. But to each his own.

Maybe you just want him on your table?? lol.

Limping with pot odds, and the right cards, can be a total +ev play. I just dont think limping every trash hand cause the pot odds are good is anyway to go. Just IMO.

thanks to all for your responses. keep in mind that this play might only happen 1 or 2 times per tourney.its rare for all conditions to be met.
1. me in sb
2. blinds low 1st or 2nd round only
3. 3 limpers = 9 to 1 po
4. i have rags not just 72s

fold them. You're 19:1 to hit two pair, and even then you're not likely to get paid off by worse, or if you do have the best hand you're probably ~4:1 favorite. So you need wayyyyy more implied odds than you're getting in the early phases of a tournament.

/thread

Fold 2 - 7 no matter whats the odds are.

limping in with rags is great. if you hit the flop great and if you don't, it's easy to get away.

I'll be locking this thread soon btw, I feel like this is going to become a breeding ground for post count spam.

Sorry (well not really, lol...)

cjatud2012 said:

I'll be locking this thread soon btw, I feel like this is going to become a breeding ground for post count spam.

Sorry (well not really, lol...)

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awwwwwwwwwwww, you caught me.......


And there I was trying to give long winded sensible arguments and alnog you come with the perfect short version. "Fold them"....lol

It may be true that sometimes his pot odds may be correct, but you have to remember that your actual tournament chip pot odds aren't the final say. You also have to take into account the ICM. In a cash game, sure. Pot odds can, for the most part, guide most of your decisions, but not always so in a tournament. According to the ICM, the fewer chips you have the more they are worth. Throwing away my chips in the very beginning seems like a huge leak.

Like a couple others have said, if you are play garbage hands and hit, there are very few hands that would have limped in an hit the flop as well. For example, You limp in with your 72o and the flop comes 72T rainbow. What will people pay you off with? The only thing that will stack off is a set or maybe (and that's a pretty big maybe) an over pair. Most likely an over pair isn't going to limp in early in a SNG.

If you are going to play like this, at least do it with hands that are speculative. Gapped SC, low pocket pairs, etc. Garbage hands should go where they belong, the muck.

With me being in the BB and no one raises, I would limp in and see what happens. It is not costing me any more than my BB. If someone raises pre flop then I am gone, same with post flop unless I hit a great hand. Even then there are a lot of over cards to content with.

I never play 7,2. Well, I take that back, if I am extremely short stacked then I am pushing with any and everything. I call it push and pray.

i got knocked out of a tourney because of 7 2 suited against my aces..i couldnt believe he called a raise with it

balrog910 said:

i got knocked out of a tourney because of 7 2 suited against my aces..i couldnt believe he called a raise with it

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Calling a preflop raise with 72 ,suited or not ,is obviously bad play most of the time.
What I wonder, when did you raise.
Pre- or Postflop ?
If you slowplayed pre flop you kinda have to blame yourself I suppose.
If it's just limped and you raised postflop you didn't really lost to 7 2, but lost to a made hand or a draw.

This play is not profitable in the long run, this is quite obvious..And when things arent worth it in the long run, then you should stop it right away

cjatud2012 said:

I'll be locking this thread soon btw, I feel like this is going to become a breeding ground for post count spam.

Sorry (well not really, lol...)

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Looks like you called it right......