Limping low pair-SC...

I have read a number of books and made/read a number of posts, and I am still never entirely sure what to do. In a SnG or MTT:
Problem 1. Low Pocket Pair. If it is real early tourny and I have no read on the table I am likely to can 22-88 utg-EP w/o thinking (and maybe up to JJ, depends...). But, especially in later positions (and even sometimes utg, depending on table dynamics) I have been limping with low PP: And, so far, its +ev. It is not always the correct decision with the pot odds I am getting, but I know that the players on my table - low buy in - are not paying much attention to pot odds, so I make my decision not only on pot odds, but with my players in mind as well. Ive been keeping track, its only a month or so, but I am +ev as I fold when I dont hit and am raised, but when I hit it has payed of well. I also am not sure how to deal with low PP later in the tourny. I have been told NO LIMPING!!! but it works on the low buy ins a lot, I am not always punished. I seem to see enough flops cheaply, and when I come in blasting I am often called, then if I dont hit im in trouble. Of course, this is only EP, if its checked to me I am always aggressive in LP late stage. Early stage in position, play the low PP? Call and see a cheap flop, or get aggressive (early stage)?

Problem 2. Suited Connectors. From what position/tourny stage do I limp/raise/fold with em? I dont feel comfortable UTG and 10 BB left going 3 BB utg with 89 suited Am I just being too timid, or fold em here?... Auto fold UTG? Auto raise late stage, SS?

Not Sure But

Early in a large MTT, calling with small pocket pairs out of position is OK, but hitting trips about 10% of the time is a waist. Stealing small blinds is OK, but seems like a waist too. Raise and reraise is probably the most profitable early on (depending on the players and cards).

Mid and late stages, small pairs look better and better to me and are opportunities to win some serious chips. Final table and SH, they get even better.

I will be looking forward to other CC's answers on question 2. Call and see the flop is what I usually do early. Raise and reraise or bluff has been effective mid and late stages, again, depending on the players and the cards.

1. Small pp (below 88) are not profitable after the early blind levels in MTTs unless effective stack sizes are 40-50 BBs or more. You could try limping behind if others limp but you are asking to get shoved on in many cases. Just open fold them. They are good for restealing vs. the button but trying to steal with them before CO is not going to work, you will get called/shoved on too many times and your hand is unplayable postflop. KQo is a lot more valuable than 66.

2. Fold the 98, if you have less than 6 BBs you certainly shove but you can wait another orbit.

fletchdad said:

I have read a number of books and made/read a number of posts, and I am still never entirely sure what to do. In a SnG or MTT:
Problem 1. Low Pocket Pair. If it is real early tourny and I have no read on the table I am likely to can 22-88 utg-EP w/o thinking (and maybe up to JJ, depends...). But, especially in later positions (and even sometimes utg, depending on table dynamics) I have been limping with low PP: And, so far, its +ev. It is not always the correct decision with the pot odds I am getting, but I know that the players on my table - low buy in - are not paying much attention to pot odds, so I make my decision not only on pot odds, but with my players in mind as well. Ive been keeping track, its only a month or so, but I am +ev as I fold when I dont hit and am raised, but when I hit it has payed of well. I also am not sure how to deal with low PP later in the tourny. I have been told NO LIMPING!!!Solid advice that pretty much if your thinking in terms of SNG it becomes unprofitable to limp after like 15/30 blind levels... in MTT we want to accumulate more chips so we open up our range more in position.. but talking strickly STT play.. we dont want to be playing SC in early blind levels period. we want to limp small pairs 22-10 from early and middle position.. looking to setmine.. we can either raise or limp jacks, if you make a call and you get raised. make sure your getting decent implied odds to make the call.. you want at least 15 to 1 to make the call profitable.. and the more players in the pot the better. but it works on the low buy ins a lot, I am not always punished. I seem to see enough flops cheaply, and when I come in blasting I am often called, then if I dont hit im in trouble. Of course, this is only EP, if its checked to me I am always aggressive in LP late stage. Early stage in position, play the low PP? Call and see a cheap flop, or get aggressive (early stage)in late position its ok to raise with small pp. but yes in early blinds its fine to limp in with small pp.. i limp in pokerstars at levels 10/20 and 15/30 past that i rarely limp unless i have a good reason to be..

Problem 2. Suited Connectors. From what position/tourny stage do I limp/raise/fold with em? I dont feel comfortable UTG and 10 BB left going 3 BB utg with 89 suited Am I just being too timid, or fold em here?... Auto fold UTG? Auto raise late stage, SS? im not sure what your asking.. you want to open up your range in a mtt sure, not sure waht your asking with the shove thing... on a 10 handed table with 10 bb's its generally pretty bad to shove a SC from EP.. in fact very bad.. heres wher you can use your push/fold ICM decisions in a mtt.. jsut try and find good spots to shove.. preferably on the button or blind v blind.

Click to expand...

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I'd say the ultimate answer is 'it depends'. There are too many variables in poker to discuss this and get 'the right answer'.

Why not just raise? If your table image is solid, you raise (potentially isolating the pot, potentially taking the blinds/antes.) If you raise and hit the flop big, a continuation bet seems just like that. If you limp/call and then hit big, it's gonna be suspect when you start firing up the action on a garbagey pot.

My playstyle is to bring weaker holdings to raised pots against deep stacks, but that's my cash game strategy. In tournaments, I only bring solid holdings to flops, especially since there are ussually a few short-stacks that are just waiting to jam on you, and god forbid you get pot-odds with your A6o vs QQ.

Back to the question at hand, I'd say it depends. I hate to fold a 66 when I could have limped and seen a flop that has a 6 on it, but I'd hate to play a set on a rainbow rag board that only has a few BBs in the pot.

i was talking stickly STT.... not MTT... def agree with it depends for MTT

Man, I have these 2 questions too.

I quit to play lowPP in early stages, just fold'em.

With the antes i'm limping then and on late stages I'm raising...

But i think its not the correct way

with antes the blinds are generally quite high.. so limping in with small PP is really bad... if someone shoves on you, you must fold.. or call and be in a coinflip at best.. (BAD) it can be ok to shove them later on.. but it depends a lot on the blinds and what position your in.. stack sizes etc.

Call in early position and reise on CO and Btn

fletchdad said:

Problem 1. Low Pocket Pair. If it is real early tourny and I have no read on the table I am likely to can 22-88 utg-EP w/o thinking (and maybe up to JJ, depends...). But, especially in later positions (and even sometimes utg, depending on table dynamics) I have been limping with low PP: And, so far, its +ev. It is not always the correct decision with the pot odds I am getting, but I know that the players on my table - low buy in - are not paying much attention to pot odds, so I make my decision not only on pot odds, but with my players in mind as well. Ive been keeping track, its only a month or so, but I am +ev as I fold when I dont hit and am raised, but when I hit it has payed of well. I also am not sure how to deal with low PP later in the tourny. I have been told NO LIMPING!!! but it works on the low buy ins a lot, I am not always punished. I seem to see enough flops cheaply, and when I come in blasting I am often called, then if I dont hit im in trouble. Of course, this is only EP, if its checked to me I am always aggressive in LP late stage. Early stage in position, play the low PP? Call and see a cheap flop, or get aggressive (early stage)?

Click to expand...

In the early stages of a large MTT play is so random that one could easily argue to just fold small pp (22-66<--maybe up to 66) in ep-mp. From utg and utg+1 I have stopped playing small PP unless I'm big stack or it's a weak/tight table. If it's folded to me I will never open limp, so you have to decided if you want to play a pot where you raised pre with a small pp and will most likely be oop. If you're not comfortable doing this then just fold them. If there's a raise in front of me I will usually call with such large Ms early in a MTT. If the raiser just lost a big pot or short stacked (M>10) I will 3 bet for value depending on the players left to act behind me. If the player is very loose I will call down light depending on board texture, bet sizes, and past history with that player.

fletchdad said:

Problem 2. Suited Connectors. From what position/tourny stage do I limp/raise/fold with em? I dont feel comfortable UTG and 10 BB left going 3 BB utg with 89 suited Am I just being too timid, or fold em here?... Auto fold UTG? Auto raise late stage, SS?

Click to expand...

With 10BB left you're either going to push or fold. At this point I think you just have to fold and cope with losing another BB and SB unless you pick up a premium hand or a spot that you think you can shove at out of the blinds. You're really looking for spots where it's folded to you and you can open shove in hopes of just taking the blinds at this point and if you get called hope you either have the best of it (usually not) or you get lucky and hit your hand. You're really hoping to find yourself in an incredibly lucky spot with money other than the blinds/antes in and a premium hand.(obv) The problem with making a standard raise with only 10bb is you can't play post flop. If you're trying to hit a flop with a sc, don't do it utg, and especially with only 10bb. You will almost always not like the flop, and you will almost always get called no matter what if somebody called your pfr. Just wait for a better spot.