Limping heads up

#1 December 26th, 2016, 8:09 AM

I've seen a lot of top pros implementing this strategy could someone explain the theory behind it and why they are not playing more aggro

#2 December 26th, 2016, 10:31 AM

and what was the structure of the HU ? hyper-turbo?

#3 December 26th, 2016, 11:02 AM

I love it when someone limps when HU with me, I love a free look at the flop, especially when I hit the flop hard with junk, if I don't hit I fold and have lost nothing.

Limping heads up

#4 December 26th, 2016, 6:40 PM

It just changes up your game.

Limping does many different things, for example: It allows you to see cheap flops and win small pots. It allows you to control the pot against hyper aggressive players (ie. You limp, because you don't want to get re-raised and play a big pot with 89s, you can smooth call a raise). It disguises your hand (ie. most players raise any ace). When the villian gets short (ie. 20bb) you may not have a hand quite strong enough to call his shove but you want to see a flop.

You may see more limps depending on how many BB players have. If players have 100bb +, there is going to be a lot less limping. If the players have 50bb -, you could see a lot more limping.

HU is certainly a game upon itself and people specialize in it.

#5 December 26th, 2016, 7:48 PM

I think this tactic shows himself well with a large enough stack only. with a short stack game begins push-fold, and it kills the idea of poker games and brain))

#6 December 26th, 2016, 8:54 PM

It's pretty cool to play like that. The best players prefers to play with flopped cards. Also with such limp tactics, your opponent could be trapped. If he is all in once or twice after your limp, when you are folding, then you may set a trap like that.

#7 December 26th, 2016, 9:06 PM

yea its a good strat to use but not all the time.. i use it here and there so i make my game play unpredictable because most of the players you'll be playing HU youve probol played against unless its a tournament but even then its a good strat

#8 December 29th, 2016, 8:24 PM

Originally Posted by redwhitealex

I think this tactic shows himself well with a large enough stack only. with a short stack game begins push-fold, and it kills the idea of poker games and brain))

i agree whit this. when stacks are high normally the game should begin from flop, the strategy could change when your stack or the rival stack is short, then is a good moment to take agressiveness.

#9 December 29th, 2016, 8:43 PM

with large stacks - good strategy

#10 December 29th, 2016, 8:47 PM

What happens in this strategy as everything has its good and bad side, the good thing is that it is more feasible that a faron works but you have to be very careful because some players who pretend not to know anything can turn you around and make you lose

#11 December 29th, 2016, 11:49 PM

I think it could be good to limp some hands when playing HU, just to vary your game and possibly confuse your opponent. HU is all about playing your opponent rather than your cards, it's very psychological.

#12 December 30th, 2016, 5:39 AM

I agree with karl on this one.

I can tell you what my thinking was on the final table heads up. I was kicking his ass and had a 4:1 chip lead...I was very aggressive raising and reraising. He then started reraising all in almost every hand. Was very frustrating to raise and fold. Against an all in frequently I just looked for cards I felt ahead of this range. I got AJ os. He went all in, I called...he had AK....instant double. I waited, got 44...called..he had 86 os...spiked the 6. Now I'm behind. I regrouped and started playing small ball...limping...calling his raise...seeing a flop and outplaying him. It worked and when I had him outchipped, I flopped good and got him to commit. End of story.

Limping has its merits.

#13 December 30th, 2016, 8:11 AM

Works with deep stack heads up 50 BB or more and against some opponents. Mostly dependent on opponent. Limping can irritate some opponents.

#14 December 30th, 2016, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by canabero

i agree whit this. when stacks are high normally the game should begin from flop, the strategy could change when your stack or the rival stack is short, then is a good moment to take agressiveness.

that's what I wanted to say. Well this is as you like. someone more comfortable with a short stack and someone on the contrary Limping heads up

#15 December 31st, 2016, 12:19 PM

unless you know you can get their stack on post flop (slow roll them) it's generaly no use. Free flop for them and you possibly good PRF hands is now being beat by ome trash like 38o =)

#16 December 31st, 2016, 6:31 PM

I have recently updated my heads up strategy to implement a limping strategy. Basically, when stacks are in the 25 BBs range, the BB can shove profitably against your opens pretty wide and put you in a bad spot when you are opening a wide range. The pros who have adopted this strategy have done so as a defense against the 3 bet shove with these stacks.

From the SB, heads up I like to play up to 80% of my hands. If you are playing less than 60%, your are folding too often from the SB. But if I am min raising 80% that would allow the BB to shove 40%or more. So against this type of player, if you limp, they can raise, but they can't jam stacks this large, but then you put them into a bad spot with their raise as you can now jam over their raise.

Olivier Bisquet was one of the first pros I saw start to implement this, then I got some charts from Jonathan Little's book's bonus chapter on his limp/jam, limp/call, and limp/fold ranges.

If you are playing a straight forward player who is not exploiting your open range by shoving wide, then keep raising. I only make this adjustment against better players who are 3 bet shoving my opens wide.

#17 December 31st, 2016, 6:39 PM

i think its a great strategy, hope it doesnt catch on more because it eliminates a lot of profitable shoves

#18 December 31st, 2016, 6:54 PM

I guess is the Slow Play I use when want not to scare the players, but it should only be used If you are 99% sure you hold the winning hand. Limping heads up

#19 December 31st, 2016, 8:18 PM

Limping can be a good way to obscure your range HU but used too often it can get abused by better players

#20 December 31st, 2016, 9:15 PM

I will limp for two reasons Headsup...

First is I am confident that my post flop play is better than the player I am up against and they have tells such as checking the flop and betting the turn at a high percentage,betting when they hit and folding when they dont have it etc.

Second they over react to a open limp and I can take advantage that way.
They see a limp and bet pot or 5xbet and I end up with more commitment from them to the pot then I would if I opened with a std 3xbb.
Sometimes that same player will cbet 100% of flops due to the size and that sort of player rarely adjusts in time.
When they do adjust it is in the extreme the other way where you can get them to fold turn on a 1/4 pot bet.

It is also not early on to establish image that you can exploit later or very soon after.

#21 January 1st, 2017, 3:29 AM

an adition...

normally a loose play is not recomended in a full table because if you play a bad hand it's obvious that the probabilities of finding a rival whit a good hand are high and if you have a good hand there some probabilities that someone could call you whit a good hand but not better that yours. but when you play heads-up there are only 2 players, what does it mean? if you have a bad hand , there are a high porbabilities that your rival have also a bad hand so for that reason is recommendable to play many hands as you can.

#22 January 3rd, 2017, 12:26 AM

because when you limp in sb then bb might think you have a weak hand so you can make a re raise if villain raise on preflop or postflop. when you limp all the hands its difficult for villain to put you on a range so thats why limping might be a good strategy. however i think mixing up the game is the best strategy to win in heads up.

#23 January 3rd, 2017, 1:56 AM

I lost a heads up match on tournament final with a limper who had 92 and I had KQ. flop was Q 9 2. Since then, I try to not to play slow in heads up match on final table.

#24 January 6th, 2017, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by amitmanchanda

I lost a heads up match on tournament final with a limper who had 92 and I had KQ. flop was Q 9 2. Since then, I try to not to play slow in heads up match on final table.

What was your raise, that he calls with this hand?
Otherwise, you limped KQ in this hand ...

#25 January 7th, 2017, 3:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dejange

What was your raise, that he calls with this hand?
Otherwise, you limped KQ in this hand ...

Read the title of the thread Limping heads up

#26 January 7th, 2017, 4:46 AM

Never!

#27 January 7th, 2017, 6:48 AM

Limping is good when you or your opponent have around 20 big blinds and if you believe you have more post flop skill it's definitely a good strategy.

#28 January 7th, 2017, 7:50 AM

Sometimes I limp HU, but if I am leaderchip I usually shove, I just limp with speculatives cards.

#29 January 7th, 2017, 11:51 AM

I used to play tolkro Heads up and realized that the aggro style approach only in Heads Up Hyper-Turbo, in the conventional heads up games lyudya try to use the strategy game where luck plays a minimal role.

#30 February 16th, 2020, 12:32 PM

Good thread. More discussion, please!!

#31 February 16th, 2020, 12:34 PM

I do it as well. It's good to see a free flop or if you have really good cards that you can hide how strong they are and get even more money out of them.

#32 February 16th, 2020, 12:54 PM

I rarely limp, but I have played against many limpers, and that gives me a lot of struggle, and tilt. I play Turbo Heads Ups.

Yeah, I know my ego is too involved, many players limp basically every hand, and I don't want to let them see a cheap flop, so I raise OOP when I have a little bit better holding than average (like Q6s+), almost every time they call (passive loose players). Then what? I don't hit anything, like most of the time, what should I do, if I don't make a cBet, they bet and I have to give up my hand. That sucks. Otherwise, if I hit mid-pair or something, I make cBet, they call, on the Turn, I have to make another cBet, because opp will make a big bet, and I have to give up the hand. And every time when I have a very good holding and I do the same, firing cBets like before when I don't have that good holding, my opponent folds. Whatta heck. That makes me tilt so badly.

Almost every poker coach that I have followed teaches an aggressive approach, I have no idea how to play successfully passively. I have tried to play aggressively against passive-loose players, and it doesn't work. No fold equity, no hand reading ability when opp limps with every hand and calls almost everything and never give up until I have something good and somehow he knows that even I do exactly the same as when I have worse.

So, what is your suggestion against this kind of passive player? I really need to improve my tilt control. I have an impatient personality, I want to end tournament fast and I want to fight big pots. Against a good calling station, this is impossible. Should I just play very tight-passive OOP or how to fix this? Or just start to play a similar way, but get an edge by getting tighter and go to showdown as much as possible?

#33 February 16th, 2020, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by pescaofish

I guess is the Slow Play I use when want not to scare the players, but it should only be used If you are 99% sure you hold the winning hand. Limping heads up

So it should never be used ? Because you never have 99% before the flop..... Not even with Aces against 72 off....

#34 February 16th, 2020, 1:34 PM

I like a limp tactic if you re playing a tournament but when heads up its not really my style of play. Could make it work though, i just think there are better tactics for heads up and i like to do it aggresively

#35 February 16th, 2020, 1:47 PM

Much depends on the opponent and the battery when you have a big stack is a good idea to do so if the opponent is too aggressive or too passive is a viable strategy.

#36 February 16th, 2020, 1:49 PM

Professionals also make mistakes. Strong players in the heads up stage often do raise. Because if they play aggressively only when collected powerful combination, they quickly lose your stack. Players who limp at this stage just worried and so make mistakes.

#37 February 16th, 2020, 3:01 PM

Depends off situation....but yaaa, sometimes lim is not bad.......not verry often because can be risky....

#38 February 16th, 2020, 3:18 PM

I love it when im heads-up and people just limp
instead of bet gives my trash hands like 49 27 a freeflop

But i never try to give them a freeflop in return they have to pay
But it also depends what type of game it is..
Holdem, omaha, razz, badugi etc, and if you do have notes on the player and you can read him well, they might get a freeflop just for them to make a mistake Limping heads up

#39 February 16th, 2020, 3:48 PM

I am by no means a heads-up specialist, but when stacks get shorter than 20BB, limping into the pot protect you from getting jammed on and losing 2BB or more every time, you need to fold. And I think, this is the main reason, why people do it. Its probably also, what solvers suggest as the optimal strategy.

You have paid 0,5BB already, so limping gives you a very good price, especially if there is a big ante. Many live tournaments have moved to a 1BB BNT ante, and that really matter, when it gets down to heads up. If you have to call 0,5BB to win 3,0BB in position, you cant fold any hand at all, and by limping with strong hands as well, you protect the weaker part of your range.

I am sure, some tournament specialists can add more to the subject, but I think, this is the basic theory behind a limping strategy heads up. A lot of this will also apply to blind vs. blind situations in 3+ handed situations apart from the fact, that you are going to be out of position postflop.

#40 February 16th, 2020, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by jjpregler

I have recently updated my heads up strategy to implement a limping strategy. Basically, when stacks are in the 25 BBs range, the BB can shove profitably against your opens pretty wide and put you in a bad spot when you are opening a wide range. The pros who have adopted this strategy have done so as a defense against the 3 bet shove with these stacks.

From the SB, heads up I like to play up to 80% of my hands. If you are playing less than 60%, your are folding too often from the SB. But if I am min raising 80% that would allow the BB to shove 40%or more. So against this type of player, if you limp, they can raise, but they can't jam stacks this large, but then you put them into a bad spot with their raise as you can now jam over their raise.

Olivier Bisquet was one of the first pros I saw start to implement this, then I got some charts from Jonathan Little's book's bonus chapter on his limp/jam, limp/call, and limp/fold ranges.

If you are playing a straight forward player who is not exploiting your open range by shoving wide, then keep raising. I only make this adjustment against better players who are 3 bet shoving my opens wide.

This is pretty much it.

Basically limping allows you to play a way wider range than only raising would. To take the 25BB range for example, there are a lot of hands that can't call off a jam after they raise which would be a waste of equity. Thus it's way more profitable to limp/call their raise instead. And against opponents who don't play as agressive as you should, you can limp pretty much the entire bottom of your range and see a free flop.

#41 February 16th, 2020, 5:49 PM

you dilute your range with limp and if you know how to play post-flop, this is a good one-on-one strategy.

#42 February 16th, 2020, 6:10 PM

Every time you see a player limping you should see an opportunity to take their stack–or at least a big chunk of it–in a rather short span of time.

#43 February 16th, 2020, 6:22 PM

Limping in is never never never a good thing - u have to ask questions with bets to kno where u r in the hand

#44 February 16th, 2020, 6:25 PM

Originally Posted by det0nate

Limping in is never never never a good thing - u have to ask questions with bets to kno where u r in the hand

I have won many stacks by limping my premium hands and then called when my opponent goes straightly all-in. In my opinion, winning is a good thing

#45 February 16th, 2020, 6:26 PM

Limping sometimes can be tricky. Most of the time you are considered weck if you limp......But just don t abuze "limp" button...

#46 February 16th, 2020, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by poker_bro

I have won many stacks by limping my premium hands and then called when my opponent goes straightly all-in. In my opinion, winning is a good thing

i never said you cant win - i was meaning its never a good idea
slowplay lets others hit and kill slowplaying ACEs all the time

#47 February 16th, 2020, 7:28 PM

Limping is good. Limp to check. Limp to call. Limp to check raise. Limp to fold. Or maybe if your coy enough. Limp to Re-RAISE. ALL IN. Snap them other non limping hard pushing players. Good luck everyone. And as always try to have fun. Without fun. Your not having as good time as you could be.. choose to be nice please don't choose to be bad. Santa will remember.

#48 February 16th, 2020, 8:21 PM

Hello, the All CardsChat Community! I can to say only one: limping play, by my opinion, especially in Heads Up, is very bad play! Because You give out initiative yourself your opponent: this is means You lost psychologically on half already, and psychology in Poker is more important key moment, especially in that game, as Heads Up. Why enter yourself in tilt advance?! I think, this is silly!
Contrary, need try a first take iniative of game in your hands: this is path to Victory! Limping heads up

#49 February 24th, 2020, 4:25 AM

I personally think it�s a good strategy hides your hand strength and keeps your opponent guessing.

#50 February 24th, 2020, 4:34 AM

Limping heads up is another tool to use. The goal in heads up is not to be predictable. So limping mixes up your game.

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Limping heads up

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