Laying down QQ pre on the bubble

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texasoldtimer

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Trying to build my bankroll on small sng's on bovada. So far i have cashed in 10 of 13 games. Twice I have laid down QQ pre flop one spot away from the money when small stack went all in and got called down in front of me by the big stack. Both times worked out perfectly. But in the long run did I make the right play?
 
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JordanE2012

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Depending on how small the small stack was and how solid the big stack is playing..
Big stack could be calling with KQ suited if the short stack is around 7 BB

also what was your position in the tournament and your chances of taking it down..

If theres 20BBs in the pot with antes and blinds and the short stack is super small, and also granted there aren't many players behind.. then calling all in here sounds legit..

if you have 20 bigs you get a return of about 50BBs, shortening one of the big stacks and giving you a huge chip up!

now say you could get 3rd with this play [granted you play solid afterwards] but when you miss out on the play you min cash.. then this play is massively plus EV+

Although there are instances where this is a bad play as in if the short stack has been really tight and has about 10-15BBs and also if the Big Stack is a nit!

Just my $0.02 :)
 
T-Dubs82

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i have done it in mtts, not sure if i have done it in stt
 
Acesinthebig

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Trying to build my bankroll on small sng's on bovada. So far i have cashed in 10 of 13 games. Twice I have laid down QQ pre flop one spot away from the money when small stack went all in and got called down in front of me by the big stack. Both times worked out perfectly. But in the long run did I make the right play?

What percentage of your stack was the all in for?
 
Acesinthebig

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And what did the big stack end up having?
 
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texasoldtimer

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Sorry. I was actually the short stack sitting at 10bb. The next shortest stack 12bb pushed all in and was called by the biggest stack. I didnt like my queens in a 3 way race. If we both lose to the big stack I miss the money because I went in with the smallest stack. right?
 
dd_decker

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It usually seems that the big stack will call, hit his ace, and the queens will lose. So if you fold and get in the money, fine. However, if you want to actually win the tournament, it's a good opportunity to triple up and make a real run at winning it all, which should be your goal. So calling is probably better in the long run. What gets me is a lot of times both opponents will have an ace and yet an ace still hits on the board.. Of course, you might have to fade a king too. It's never easy in poker! :rolleyes:
 
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paulyd

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what stake buyins did u lay this down in?
 
sam1chips

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Trying to build my bankroll on small sng's on bovada. So far i have cashed in 10 of 13 games.

That's an impressive cash %. However, as far as profitability, it may be more profitable to have 3 or 4 wins under your belt, even if that means your ITM % ends up going down. Best of luck
 
arjun7890

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Trying to build my bankroll on small sng's on bovada. So far i have cashed in 10 of 13 games. Twice I have laid down QQ pre flop one spot away from the money when small stack went all in and got called down in front of me by the big stack. Both times worked out perfectly. But in the long run did I make the right play?
If it works for you & your making money, then stick to it. Buit it also depends on the play of the big stack. A big stack usually calls small stacks on small pairs/ ace highs/KQ's & KJ's. So, it sometimes is a blessing in disguised that you're holding QQ. You need to have a good read/style of play of your opponent to make such decisions in a very short span of time. GOOD LUCK! :)

"You will show your poker greatness by the hands you fold, not the hands you play."
-Dan Reed
 
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When playing QQ i usually bet high, but want to see the flop.

QQ against one all-in is hard, and against 2 all-ins they are bound to get lucky. Even AA are a 66% win.

This is a hard call, but I have been burnt attempting hands like this too often in a spot or two away from paid positions.

I want to say fold AA in that situation and hold fast for the money unless you are short stacked. This is because it sucks to lose just before pay.

Someone said it depends on how loose the big stack was being and how much the smaller stack had. Real hands like QQ are much more likely to pass at that point in the game as people start shoving with any ace or pair when the blinds get huge.

So for that reason I would play them.

Notice I don't always do what I advise. There is no right answer. Use your gut. Would you be happy crapping out just before a paid position, or would you rather double up plus on your pot and have a shot at first place.

Would you have won in those situations? You must have seen the draw.

I would shove with JJ or above most likely and hope my opponents both have ace-rags that don't hit.
 
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inflnlte

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Sorry. I was actually the short stack sitting at 10bb. The next shortest stack 12bb pushed all in and was called by the biggest stack. I didnt like my queens in a 3 way race. If we both lose to the big stack I miss the money because I went in with the smallest stack. right?

In this situation, I think its ok but I wouldn't do it a lot. And only because its a sng. I would never fold in a MTT.
 
dino

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I would suggest to fold, just like you did, the main reason is to get ITM, right??
so, if you risk all your stack on bubble, if not neccessery, I do highly recommend to fold and get ITM, then after few more hands, start playing more aggresively
 
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Here is what set us apart.... I play to win, but you play to placed in a tournament.

The big stack could of had anything. There was a good chance both of them had an Ace in their hand. To win poker tournament, you have to win races. If you won the pot, you could have had 30BB.
 
aa88wildbill

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If you're talking about an super turbo, or turbo you didn't make the right play.
 
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doomasiggy

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And what did the big stack end up having?

completely irrelevant.

@ OP: most of the time if you have QQ in this spot you should be going all in. Sometimes you shouldn't depending on ICM and how good a player the big/short stack is.
 
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Fold. QQ is dead meat vs. an early position all in and a call, even (especially) at the bubble. Gamble after you get in the money, or do the shoving yourself.
 
Rappyness

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If you are winning atm why change it? Fold if you think it will help get you to that money. But then again, if its taking long to get a good hand to play you might want to play that QQ. I rather bet on qq than aa late in games tho. I have some bad experiences in aa late in tournamets :(
 
caintain

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been burned with q's so many times that i think you made the right call its poker no hand is unbeatable and if you play as such you will win more instead of letting your ego and what you think you know take over.

best of luck at the tables
 
Indian Givah

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you have to know you players, especially the big stack. has he been playing tight? or picking up the blinds to go ITM with a larger stack? and as for the ss, i think in this time, especially since he's ss, I dont think he'd push with garbage just to go out on the bubble. I think you made the right decision. you can always get your chips in the middle later when you have have another solid hand, and catch a double up from the big stack if he's playing loose.
 
SicKBeATz

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I want to say fold AA in that situation and hold fast for the money unless you are short stacked. This is because it sucks to lose just before pay.
You're kidding right :confused:

OP thats a pretty big fold, don't think I would make it no matter how deep or short, I am atleast calling behind here likely shoving depending on stack size. Only time this might be a good fold imo is some satty where top 50 get a ticket and you're like in 40/52.

It might of worked out perfectly this time but if the bigstack called very light here and doubles up the shortstack by not being able to beat Ahi we're pretty sick with our decision as we could of been in the money if we called and added some extra chips to battle the bigstack.

Out of curiousity would you have won the hands if you called?
 
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Phil Hellmuth laid down QQ with 10bb on Poker after Dark if im not mistaken. It was horrible and his excuse was that guy was very tight and the table was 6 max. Unreal.
 
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BluffYou123

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Phil Hellmuth laid down QQ with 10bb on Poker after Dark if im not mistaken. It was horrible and his excuse was that guy was very tight and the table was 6 max. Unreal.


Villain would have to be really nitty for me to fold QQ pre, bubble or not. It's just too strong a hand to fold vs their ranges imo.
 
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4 handed I dont see how you can lay down QQ pre ever tbh...12 bb open shove doesnt scare me...I guess the only thing that would set off any alarm bells was if the big stack just called instead of iso shoving but even still i think you gotta go with it
 
Indian Givah

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big difference between laying down QQ preflop in a cash game compared to a tourney on the bubble, plus texasoldtimer would have been all in from what i saw saying he was the ss.. helmuth wouldnt of been all in just by calling and seeing the flop.
 
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