late stages stt help

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pokgai

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hh
 

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dj11

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Specific questions?

Your graph looks pretty good, and I'm guessing you want to move on average one step higher, getting that 4th place bar into the 3rd place spot.

What games and where?
 
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Nooneinparticular

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Doo you bust out after pushing to wide a range or do you just wittle away your stack? Or something else?
 
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WiZZiM

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DJ-the only way to get the 4th place bar down is to get more 5-6th place finishes. You don't want more thirds, you want more first places. So getting more aggro in the middle stages is crucial, as it will give you a higher average stack that your competitions when you actually reach 4th place, which of course propels you to more 1-2 place finishes. The trick is of course to not lower the amount you are cashing, 38-40% is great, but without a high % of first places, you ROI will always be mediocre.

OP, this is like the 5th time you've posted this, your not going to get any good meaningful responses unless you ask thoughtful meaningful questions.
 
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WiZZiM

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Doo you bust out after pushing to wide a range or do you just wittle away your stack? Or something else?

Most players with this distribution almost always play way too tight. They basically don't adjust in the middle stages and get left with a smaller stack on average on the bubble.
 
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Nooneinparticular

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Most players with this distribution almost always play way too tight. They basically don't adjust in the middle stages and get left with a smaller stack on average on the bubble.

Yeah that's what Im expecting him to say. Thought I would try and get him to actually ask a question though........

And you're spot on, first places are key, I can never work out why anyone plays double up tourneys!!!
 
kidkvno1

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What's your range for hands? If your busting out on the bubble a lot your playing way to tight.
 
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WiZZiM

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What's your range for hands? If your busting out on the bubble a lot your playing way to tight.

not necessarily. you can also get a lot of 4th places from being too aggressive. It's not usually the case, but something to keep in mind.
 
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pokgai

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I was suppose to post a handhistory but i found out there is tournament hand analaysis thread. I deleted the stuff of this thread and I didnt know how to delete this thread so i just left it here LOl

the games i play are mainly $1 or $3 Stt on party. The reason was that i tighten my range too much 5-6 handed and when it got to the bubble my stack was crippled. My range was like 88s + AJ+ A10s during 5-6 handed. I guess my thought was that in micro stakes players had a wide calling range and did not care about pot odds so i would tighten up and wait for a strong hand to double up to the bubble, but i would just get blinded out. Fixing this leak atm.
I have a question tho. that big swing i have was from playing $6 stt. I dont know if its because of variance but it seems like i can make a better profit with $6. The rake isnt as bad and i make small profits instead of breakeven. Its bad bkr managment but it beats grinding $1 stt to break even most of the time.
 
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WiZZiM

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you can make better profit as the rake is lower, and your winning/losing more. However your skill edge diminishes as you move up in rank as well. Playing against better skilled opponants means you have to work a lot harder for your chips, and they won't make as many mistakes.

You also cannot have a "set range" for 5-6 handed play. Your range will always change with what variables you are presented with. Like it might be fine to shove that range against one opponant, but because another opponant will call too much, it may be too loose. Shove charts can be good to learn with, but they are only a guide and you should deviate from them, just use your common sense, if you have a tight player, you should be raising a hell of a lot wider than average just to give one example.
 
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pokgai

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yea thats true. I noticed these things and im trying to adjust to my play.

Even tho there are more regs and grinders in the $6 stt, I just think that the play in $6 isnt as retarded as the $1 which cause me to tilt. It I get less calling stations and bad beats and the rake is just ridiculous i have to place 1st 1/4 times to break even


What do you think i should i do just multitable $1 until i can move up $3 or should i play $6 but only play like 2 tables?
 
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WiZZiM

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I'd suggest playing whatever you want, are comfortable with etc. The best way to learn is to make mistakes, so make them :).

I wouldn't however suggest heavily multitabling at this stage. Learn to play 1-2 tables really well, and then add from there.

I'd personally probably stick to the $3 games, and only play like 1-2 tables at a time and try to play them well/read lots/learn etc. Then add more when comfortable. Playing the 6's is a pretty huge jump from playing the $1 games, and you may tilt a lot more when you start seeing your bankroll being depleted.

Just to give you an idea of the amount of games it takes to get somewhere in this game i played around 3,500 $3 turbo games before i was ready to move up in stakes (and i still wasn't ready).
 
kidkvno1

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not necessarily. you can also get a lot of 4th places from being too aggressive. It's not usually the case, but something to keep in mind.
True, esp when you start raising wide on the bubble, when everyone else is playing tight.:D
 
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The key to getting close to the bubble/the bubble is realising that to steal the blinds, you do NOT need to go all in. 2.5x works perfectly well, and 3x can also get the job done on slightly more agressive tables. I just never understand people who suddenly go all in OOP to steal the blinds with Q10s. It is insane, especially in early position.

I think it's Elky, but it might be Jonathon little, says that you should only be going all in if 3x leave you back a stack which means you are commited, or that if you are willing to raise and then call an all in, you should be going all in to exert maximum pressure.
My own personal addition to that is that if you always 2.5x or 3x then people can't work out your range, and also if you do it with something like 1010 and get 2 other people all in you can fold marginal hands where you are clearly losing, and often dominated.

Lastly, Wizzim is spot on. The step up is massive from one to another buyin. I now play almost exclusivly $15 6 seat hyper turbo's. Although I can win at $30 ones, at $15 I can make a profit much easier and more regularly without the risk and bank roll for $30 ones. Last 7 days on $15 I am running at 47.69% ITM, while on $30 I am at 28.8%. In the past I have run at 42% at $60, but people up there adapt quickly and work out how to play you, and therefore making money is difficult in the long term.

The line between making money at the buy in above, and making more money with less risk at the lower buyin is a fine one. For me, the less risk makes the lower buy in the best option.

enjoy
 
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