KK what would you have done pre?

I know I was way to aggressive after the flop causing me to take a quick exit from this tournament.. Blinds 1500/3000 I'm sitting with around 100k, chip average is like 75kish I believe, around 60 people left in tourney and like the title, I'm dealt KK.

musicsthedevil Posts Ante 300.00
ThirstyPretzel Posts Ante 300.00
MasterP24 Posts Ante 300.00
LollyK Posts Ante 300.00
fasteddee74 Posts Ante 300.00
philly777bro Posts Ante 300.00
HondaCBR600F4 Posts Ante 300.00
runrun31 Posts Ante 300.00
fasteddee74 Posts SB 1500.00
philly777bro Posts BB 3000.00
HondaCBR600F4 Raised to 6000.00
runrun31 Folds
musicsthedevil Folds
ThirstyPretzel Raised to 20175.00
MasterP24 Folds
LollyK Folds
fasteddee74 Calls 18675.00
philly777bro Folds
HondaCBR600F4 Calls 14175.00
fasteddee74 Checks
HondaCBR600F4 Checks
ThirstyPretzel All In 80953.00
fasteddee74 Folds
HondaCBR600F4 Calls 80953.00
ThirstyPretzel Shows Kc,Kh
HondaCBR600F4 Shows Ad,Qs
ThirstyPretzel Out
HondaCBR600F4 Won 227831.00 from Pot 1 with Full House - Queens over Jacks

Would need to see the flop cards before passing comment although if there were 2 queens on the flop then some caution might be a good idea. Still, it depends on the flop. I think your raise pre is good and obviously all the chips are getting in if he re-raises, so kind of a cold deck situation anyway.

When posting a hand history for analysis & if you want to get decent replies, you need to list the stack sizes of all players on the table & include any other relevant info. (ie. player reads, history, etc.)

I have about 110k, fast eddie around 200k (although he folds), Honda, about 130k. flop came QQ 7.

You needed to raise more the pot was already pretty big. Also I don't know if AQ is folding regardless. If you saw both Q's you need to proceed with caution. Qx crushes you.

I would be maybe little more careful about going all-in if someone called my 20k bet- it inclines, that he have some good cards (also depends on your read on him), but anyway if flop came QQ7 i would maybe check and be cautious about his next moves.

With KK in situation like this I will always go all-in pre-flop. So for my opinion your move was pretty good, and you don't have to be worried about that. The only reason that you don't won the pot was that you didn't have very luck, or your opponent have the more luck than you.

KK is only a pair. any A is better. many players call any bet with an A and if the flop is giving an A you are lost. your play was wrong. 3 big blind raise is the best.

I would have gone all in pre-flop. You didn't...and I don't think I would have gone all in against someone who called for 20 blinds...

With that hand i would go all in pre-flop to make them pay. If i am the first one to act i would raise 3xbb. Whoever with so many players in that hand it´s dangerous play and pair below AA, because it´s almost certain that anyone could have one ace or even AA. But anything below KK i would fold in that situation.

I defo would of played 3 big blinds on kk,, i used to go ll in on it not any more , ha ha learnt that the hard way.

Its pretty unlucky to lose to trips in this situation; the odds of flopping trips are 73:1 or 1.35%. I thought about the open shove on the flop and I don't really mind it, I think a lot of underpairs are calling you here because it's a pretty dry board (tough to hit). With fasteddie calling, it gave HondaCBR 48750/14175 ~ (3.4:1) pot odds to call meaning he would have to win 23% of the time. Not really too sure what I would have done differently because the pot on the flop was about 60k and you only had 80k behind...maybe 25k flop bet, jam turn for 55k. Pretty tough to get away from this one either way.

I would have raised to 2 bb by default so as not to make a tell. If then i got reraised I would have gone all in, If not, I would have pressured on the flop if there was not an A or all suited. At this stage of the tournament, with 30bb it is actually difficult to fold KK

My advice would be to ignore almost all the advice from the members responding here. There's a crapload of bad advice in this thread...
some have obviously not read the HandHistory (suggesting to open-raise pre 2x or 3x, meanwhile villain has already opened & HERO 3bets kinda on the huge size & yet others are suggesting you raise it up even bigger pre? wtf? or to just jam in 30bb's wtf x2??).

ak725 said:

KK is only a pair. any A is better. many players call any bet with an A and if the flop is giving an A you are lost. your play was wrong. 3 big blind raise is the best.

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False!
Any 'A' is not better. Please... run some hands through an equity/odds calculator - - KK is a HUGE favourite vs. everything except for AA.

In most tournaments, players aren't about to call with 'any A' (< calling with A-rag is more common for micro donks &/or freerollers) & if they do > GREAT! (they're calling as a huge dog).

3xbb raise is not best & in this hand HERO is already facing a raise ahead of them.

Poker Orifice said:

My advice would be to ignore almost all the advice from the members responding here. There's a crapload of bad advice in this thread...
some have obviously not read the HandHistory (suggesting to open-raise pre 2x or 3x, meanwhile villain has already opened & HERO 3bets kinda on the huge size & yet others are suggesting you raise it up even bigger pre? wtf? or to just jam in 30bb's wtf x2??).

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Lol, I was thinking the same thing. A standard 3bet this deep would be more in the 2.5x range but if he thought he would get worse to call over 3x I totally get it; this could have been a really donkish/micro tourney, who knows. Overall I don't think the hand was played too poorly (maybe smaller 3bet then cbet and shove turn which would get you paid with more of his range), just unlucky.

if u got all of ur money in with the best hand thats all u can ask for really

nab76 said:

if u got all of ur money in with the best hand thats all u can ask for really

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Did you read the thread? Please refer back to post 1.

The weird thing about this hand is that after the flop comes out QQ7, and both villains check, and you decide to go all in. At that point, you can really only get called by a hand that is better than you (ie, a queen). Because JJ probably can't call an all in. A7 almost certainly can't call an all in. You're really only get called by a queen.

Plus, with 2 opponents calling a big re-raise pre-flop, it is very likely that at least one of them has a queen.

I think there is no value at betting all-in on the flop here. You'll just get the worst hands to fold, and the best hands to call.

PS - I just reread the title of the thread (What would you have done with KK pre-flop). I think the pre-flop play is fine. Your re-raise might be considered too big, but the idea that you are re-raising pre flop with KK is the right play. The problem with this hand is in your post-flop play. You put in 20,000 chips preflop as a favorite, but then you put in 80,000 chips post-flop as a huge underdog

AK here, had one of your outs. Pretty sure I check folded here.

Abedin120 said:

With KK in situation like this I will always go all-in pre-flop. So for my opinion your move was pretty good, and you don't have to be worried about that.

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Abeldin120 speaks wise words.

P.S. You never said how many people get paid. If you were soon to ITM, I would not let mischief happen, I would sit out.

sam1chips said:

The weird thing about this hand is that after the flop comes out QQ7, and both villains check, and you decide to go all in. At that point, you can really only get called by a hand that is better than you (ie, a queen). Because JJ probably can't call an all in. A7 almost certainly can't call an all in. You're really only get called by a queen.

Plus, with 2 opponents calling a big re-raise pre-flop, it is very likely that at least one of them has a queen.

I think there is no value at betting all-in on the flop here. You'll just get the worst hands to fold, and the best hands to call.

PS - I just reread the title of the thread (What would you have done with KK pre-flop). I think the pre-flop play is fine. Your re-raise might be considered too big, but the idea that you are re-raising pre flop with KK is the right play. The problem with this hand is in your post-flop play. You put in 20,000 chips preflop as a favorite, but then you put in 80,000 chips post-flop as a huge underdog

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I think your preflop play was good, and I like the size of your preflop re-raise (so I disagree with sam1chips that your re-raise was too big).

I agree with sam1's assessment of your postflop play, though (even though his statement that it is likely that at least one of your opponents has a queen is statistically incorrect). I think that very few hands that don't have you beaten call you in this spot. You might get a call from 99, TT, or JJ but only against poor players (and I don't have a sense of what skill level you had assigned to your opponents). Having said all this, most of the time you get away with this shove because no one has a queen --- meaning that you take down the pot here.

What I think you need to consider going forward is this: assume you make a standard continuation bet (1/2 to 2/3 of the pot) on the flop. If you get called or raised, what do you do? Can you let your kings go if you get called or raised here? If not, I think your shove is your optimal play because you're getting all your chips in on this hand regardless and you don't give anyone a chance to bluff you out of the hand. If you can let your kings go in this spot, though, then you likely could have played it better postflop.

Best of luck.

-HooDooKoo

jimmylytle2 said:

Abeldin120 speaks wise words.

P.S. You never said how many people get paid. If you were soon to ITM, I would not let mischief happen, I would sit out.

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P.S. you'll never win big by just hoping to min cash
get it in good when you can and accept a bubble (or bad beat)occasionally- sitting out is wrong (or folding to the $,... grow a set)

to OP, i shove KK more often now myself
you played it good enough for the info you gave us

sam1chips said:

The weird thing about this hand is that after the flop comes out QQ7, and both villains check, and you decide to go all in. At that point, you can really only get called by a hand that is better than you (ie, a queen). Because JJ probably can't call an all in. A7 almost certainly can't call an all in. You're really only get called by a queen.

Plus, with 2 opponents calling a big re-raise pre-flop, it is very likely that at least one of them has a queen.

I think there is no value at betting all-in on the flop here. You'll just get the worst hands to fold, and the best hands to call.

PS - I just reread the title of the thread (What would you have done with KK pre-flop). I think the pre-flop play is fine. Your re-raise might be considered too big, but the idea that you are re-raising pre flop with KK is the right play. The problem with this hand is in your post-flop play. You put in 20,000 chips preflop as a favorite, but then you put in 80,000 chips post-flop as a huge underdog

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Why is it very likely that at least one of the players has a Q ? (I believe you stated because they called the preflop 3bet).
Personally I would think just the opposite. Calling off 20% of effective stacks preflop .... because they've got a 'Q'? Q-what? AQs? < maybe .... mayyyyybe

OP, it'd help more to list the players in the position they are sitting on the table, with 'all' stack sizes. Also, include the buyin of the tourney & any player reads you might have.

I think that your re raise pre flop was standard.2 players call your raise pre flop.
You must think, what is the hand they can call your 3bet whit .I think check fold after the flop was the think to do whit 2 players in the hand, worst hands folds,
only XQ or 77 call you on this board.