King Ten suited on BB

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Taxxman

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Never asked any questions on here before, but this has been bugging me for a few days:
Playing a NLHE $3.50 turbo rebuy, 180 people tourney, 15 people left, I am in 13th in terms of stack size, got 7 BB left, and I am BB. Everyone folds round to the small blind, who pushes all in (he has about 9 BB so has me covered) and I hold the K10s, guy has pushed on me three times in a row in this position, I think he is being aggressive, make the all-in call, he turns over pocket 10s. Flop comes up blank, as does the turn and river. Was this a bad call with hindsight?
Any help much appreciated.
 
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stg1969

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I think it was the right call, but thats just my opinion
 
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RamdeeBen

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If he shoved 3 times in a row, I'd be always calling this.

Infact, I think I'd always be calling regardless unless he was a mega nit who hasn't done anything for xamount of hands. top 18 get paid right ?

Just unlucky, just a standard race which you will win some and lose some gg on cash!
 
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Taxxman

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Yes, top 18 get paid, but you are only getting good money in top 6 or 7. Thanks for the quick replies, will leave me less in doubt next time I am faced with this situation! Glad to have joined the cardschat community.
 
shinedown.45

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Another thought I find extremely helpful when playing those games is when your ITM, do not be afraid to push or call with suited aces or suited broadway or most pocket pairs.
Your already ITM, so start risking those chips to get a higher finish.

just my opinion.
 
dd_decker

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Much easier to shove all in with that hand ratrer than call with it but if the small blind was not playing tight in general, it was a reasonable call, knowing that you're most likely behind going in and looking to get lucky...
 
Arjonius

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Easy call. You don't have the stack to wait around for a premium hand, and since the SB seems to be shoving most hands, you don't need very much to be ahead of his range. KTs is more than enough.
 
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AllInDom

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Sometime you do get killer hands in a row. It's a tough call. If he is down to the top 15 then he must be a good player. Meaning he is tight. He may be trying to steel the big blind. You still have 7 BB and there are 2 behind you. I would wait.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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Sometime you do get killer hands in a row. It's a tough call. If he is down to the top 15 then he must be a good player. Meaning he is tight. He may be trying to steel the big blind. You still have 7 BB and there are 2 behind you. I would wait.
No need to wait, if the same player is pushing the SB every time then he may just be blind stealing and in most cases suited broadway cards are good in this spot.
Another thing is a tight player does have the ability to switch gears and in a 180 player SnG, he will widen his range which makes calling his push alot easier.
 
MediaBLITZ

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Calling/shoving this all day long. Waiting would actually be even more of a gamble.
 
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Taxxman

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thanks for all the responses! Great feedback
 
slgalt

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Yes you did the right thing, mainly because you are so short stacked. Although I remember an old saying about bluffs - if it's the third time, then it's usually not a bluff. :)
 
Poker Orifice

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Easy call. You don't have the stack to wait around for a premium hand, and since the SB seems to be shoving most hands, you don't need very much to be ahead of his range. KTs is more than enough.
You don't need to be 'ahead' at all here. With antes in play & amount of chips in the middle (& ICM not bein' a consideration) & bein' soooo short, it's a snapcall here! (especially if SB player isn't a noob... cuz SB should be shoving here real wide... 'but' if they figure you're not a total noob, they know you'll be calling off wide here too). Not sure how wide I call here in this spot, but definitely ALOT wider than KTs.
Sometime you do get killer hands in a row. < SB could easily have been shoving ATC's here first couple times It's a tough call. < disagree (see above) If he is down to the top 15 then he must be a good player. < not necessarily at all, 'although' if he's been open-shoving every time it's been folded to him in SB (BvB) than I'd lean towards them at least knowing what they're doing Meaning he is tight. < ? because he's made it to Top15 (short-stacked I might add), would mean is good.. which means he is 'tight'? I don't think the two have much bearing & also disagree that this would have any indication at all that SB is shoving on a tight range here (if anything I'd think the opposite > if he's good, he's likely shoving REALLY WIDE! especially if HERO (OP) has been folding to his shoves He may be trying to steel the big blind. < no doubt he's stealing blinds & antes... I'd assume they'd make up a good % of effective stacks You still have 7 BB and there are 2 behind you. I would wait.
7BB isn't a workable stack obviously. I personally would think KTs is way more than enough to be calling the BvB shove here with both guys bein' short.
How wide do ya figure Villain is shoving?
 
Arjonius

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You don't need to be 'ahead' at all here. With antes in play & amount of chips in the middle (& ICM not bein' a consideration) & bein' soooo short, it's a snapcall here! (especially if SB player isn't a noob... cuz SB should be shoving here real wide... 'but' if they figure you're not a total noob, they know you'll be calling off wide here too). Not sure how wide I call here in this spot, but definitely ALOT wider than KTs.
Absolutely agree we don't need to be ahead to call. Just saying that because we have to assume the opponent is shoving very wide, KTs is likely to be ahead of his range. And being ahead of his range makes it a no-brainer.
 
Tino11

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Approx 6/4 against a random hand [acc to PS] and with 7BB left, folded to SB, who shoves, I call every time with that kind of hand equity. You still remain a slight favourite if SB shoving range is 50% of hands. If he shoves as wide as 75% of the time, you still remain a slight favourite v his range.
 
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sagiPOTM

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i also think that it was a good call and here is my opinion why.

First of all for 7bb and only small blind pushing for that situation its a good card. Also u suspected he kinda bluff because he pushed you last 3 handes in row. And also i think that in that situation it was nice chace to get to the final table ;D

Only thing because i think its not good is that i think its important that in push or fold phase to have one A in hand even if u push or fold... :p
 
Poker Orifice

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i also think that it was a good call and here is my opinion why.

First of all for 7bb and only small blind pushing for that situation its a good card. Also u suspected he kinda bluff because he pushed you last 3 handes in row. < pretty standard in BvB spots, 'especially' if OP's been folding And also i think that in that situation it was nice chace to get to the final table ;D

Only thing because i think its not good is that i think its important that in push or fold phase to have one A in hand even if u push or fold... :p
I strongly disagree with the last part you wrote here ^ (matter of opinion.... maybe)
 
beanstalk

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Not as sure as everybody else that it is an auto call. You're 61% vs an ATC shoving range. Do we really want to put all our equity on 61% call when we can wait 2 orbits before getting to 5BB. Open shoving top 50% from cutoff or later feels like a better option to me. What kind of math do we do to figure out if waiting has more equity than calling off here? I don't think we can counter my skepticism with fold equity arguments because we clearly aren't benefiting from it when we call this shove anyways.

As a side note, meta game speaking, if it's his 4th shove in a row on your BB...I feel like his range actually tightens...it's at least polarized a bit. He has no fold equity against you since you are so short AND your calling range is widening due to your immediate history with him...so I don't think he is shoving ATC.

If half the field has 10BB or less, which happens sometimes in 27-180 mans late, does anybody think there is merit to adjusting your M zones??? I've won a few turbo sngs coming back from 1-3 BB on the money bubble.
 
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dj11

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I also would tend to disagree, and would explain why, but have got my ass handed to me on a plate lately for voicing alternate views.

So put me in the 'I could fold this or play this' camp. I would have no qualms about folding the KT seeing as my tourney life is in the balance. Add in the 3 or so more obits I can reasonably see and it becomes a crap shoot.

Now, had the positions been reversed, I would shove the KT in the sb if the pot is unopened. In fact my range under those circumstance would be wider than KT if I open the pot, but calling is an unhappy thought to me here.

As for the odds. 61% against ATC. But why would we assume ATC? In my mind at least half of those ATC hands will not shove here, so without doing any serious math, that might reduce our odds to 30% ish against the hands we could reasonably expect to see. Well, those odds are not such that I am gonna feel compelled to do anything.
 
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Pascal-lf

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snap call, folding here is horrible, you're ahead of his range and there's a ton of dead money in the pot, there's no value in laddering plus you won't find any better spots.
 
MediaBLITZ

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You're 61% vs an ATC shoving range. Do we really want to put all our equity on 61% call when we can wait 2 orbits before getting to 5BB.

And here we arrive at the age old question - "What is your magic number?"

So I have to ask - since 61% is unacceptable to you - what is your magic number?

I know some highly recognized pros whose number is 51% ALL DAY LONG. I understand some are less. I know some are higher.
 
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mcbluffin311

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You're 61% vs an ATC shoving range. Do we really want to put all our equity on 61% call

For comparison, KTs has 70% equity against the lowly 72o, and AKs has 67% against ATC. This is a trivial call with 7bbs against his 3rd consecutive shove.
 
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Aldito

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I also would tend to disagree, and would explain why, but have got my ass handed to me on a plate lately for voicing alternate views.

So put me in the 'I could fold this or play this' camp. I would have no qualms about folding the KT seeing as my tourney life is in the balance. Add in the 3 or so more obits I can reasonably see and it becomes a crap shoot.

Now, had the positions been reversed, I would shove the KT in the sb if the pot is unopened. In fact my range under those circumstance would be wider than KT if I open the pot, but calling is an unhappy thought to me here.

As for the odds. 61% against ATC. But why would we assume ATC? In my mind at least half of those ATC hands will not shove here, so without doing any serious math, that might reduce our odds to 30% ish against the hands we could reasonably expect to see. Well, those odds are not such that I am gonna feel compelled to do anything.

Half of ATC is 50%. With the dead money this is such an easy call.

KTs v 50%


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 55.085% 53.34% 01.75% 2162204698 70866513.00 { KTs }
Hand 1: 44.915% 43.17% 01.75% 1749941996 70866513.00 { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
 
JusSumguy

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If he shoved 3 times in a row, I'd be always calling this.

I agree...

Same thing happened to me close to the bubble in a 5.50 tourney last night. Three times he hammered me. Obviously targeting my tight play. Finally, with AJ, I pushed back. He hits with T8, I'm gone. Oh well. :)

I would have done it with KTo as well.

-
 
Pascal-lf

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Say you call top 10% when he shoves - he on average wins 9 times and even when you do call he still has >30% equity. mbn right
 
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