Just Had Some "Genius" Raging At Me Over This All-In

#1 January 9th, 2021, 3:22 PM

First few hands of a full-ring $1.10 NLHE tournament.

UTG+1 and LJ limp, HJ raises 4.5 BB. I re-raise with a pot-size bet on the button with... 44... Hear me out.

UTG+1 and LJ fold.

He calls.

Flop comes: 3d - 5s - 8c

HJ jams.

I call.

Here's the thing, I really do grind the $1.10 games and take notes. I prefer to multi-table when I play, it stops me placing too much importance on single games, so I like to have a 1.10 game and a 4.50 - 7.50 game going. Point is, anyway, I have notes on this guy, the most important of which are these:

Jammed pre-flop with JJ after re-raised.
Jammed pre-flop with 99 after re-raised.
Jammed pre-flop with 66 after re-raised.

See a pattern? So, knowing that he has raised 4.5BB, has just been re-raised and is now calling, I presume a few things. He doesn't have AA, KK or QQ. Looking at my notes, I'd also make the more tenuous assumption that he doesn't have a pair, because three times before over two games - twice in early stages, once in mid stages - I've seen this guy jam. I've also seen him play badly post-flop - easily bullied, jams with nothing after losing a few big blinds and just generally bad play. So what do I assume he has?

AK, AQ, KQ, QJ - not a pair.

Whatever he has, I'm slightly - very slightly - ahead of him on the flip.

Do I KNOW this? No, but I'm properly bankrolled and willing to take the risk on my little 1.10 game.

He has AQ.

I win the flip. He says nothing. But poker genius LJ goes f*****g bananas in the chat on and off for a whole hour. His main issues being he folded JJ, I'm a donkey of illegitimate birth, my mother is prostitute (and presumably also a donkey?)

I never retaliate on chat, but I'd like to think CC community has my back here. Firstly, who the f**k limps with JJ and then folds when I three-bet the HJ? That board was perfect for jacks and it was hardly a huge pot.

I was basically paying for information when I re-raised. Had HJ jammed pre-flop, I would have folded. Considering it was a $1.10 buy-in, and I was pretty sure I was slightly ahead in terms of equity, I was happy flipping.

#2 January 9th, 2021, 3:28 PM

Here is a lesson on the importance of notes. I certainly wouldn't have played it that way without the information you had, but with it, you can adjust to take advantage. Ruling out him having a pair with only 2 cards to come gives you a significant advantage.

As for the "genius". I'd be taking notes of him and 3 betting him relentlessly.

#3 January 9th, 2021, 3:51 PM

Originally Posted by Matt_Burns88

Here is a lesson on the importance of notes. I certainly wouldn't have played it that way without the information you had, but with it, you can adjust to take advantage. Ruling out him having a pair with only 2 cards to come gives you a significant advantage.

As for the "genius". I'd be taking notes of him and 3 betting him relentlessly.

Can't imagine his bankroll will survive much longer, to be honest.

#4 January 9th, 2021, 5:49 PM

$1 games are cheap circus. must be played with massive allin in first 10 minutes< until 5% of players left, then resume to normal.

spending 2 hours for min cash +1$ - are you serious? you will be guaranteed with much much more doing some job, like washing floors maybe.

#5 January 9th, 2021, 6:24 PM

its good to play all tables of whatever value. you can always learn. Just Had Some "Genius" Raging At Me Over This All-In

#6 January 10th, 2021, 8:32 AM

The "poker expert" was probably mostly mad at himself, because he folded the best hand. As for your line small pairs play poorly in low SPR pots like 1-3, so I typically dont 3-bet those hands, if getting called will result in such a situation. If stacks are short enough, I might 3-bet jam them, but otherwise I would either call to setmine or simply fold. As for postflop the donk jam on the flop does look somewhat bluffy to me, and my biggest concern would be, that he was doing this "for protection" with a slightly better hand like 65s or A8. This time he had air though, and if you play preflop different, then the spot obviously does not happen Just Had Some "Genius" Raging At Me Over This All-In

#7 January 10th, 2021, 8:36 AM

Originally Posted by finaltable1

$1 games are cheap circus. must be played with massive allin in first 10 minutes< until 5% of players left, then resume to normal.

spending 2 hours for min cash +1$ - are you serious? you will be guaranteed with much much more doing some job, like washing floors maybe.

If you are not willing to take a game serious, then there is no point in playing it, unless maybe its a freeroll. Your suggestion is just a way of donating money to the price pool.

#8 January 10th, 2021, 8:23 PM

Originally Posted by fundiver199

If you are not willing to take a game serious, then there is no point in playing it, unless maybe its a freeroll. Your suggestion is just a way of donating money to the price pool.

Ok, let's be serious if you want to. But more important - let's be objective, let's check the facts, and facts only.

Fact #1 - What do you know about card shuffling in online poker? Nothing. You have no facts which you can prove with experiment. All that you see is the picture at your screen. There is no practical way how you can prove if it's random or not. It looks legit and you feel that you can trust it - it's based on your feelings, not facts.

Fact #2 - Since you can't prove the fundamental base - you have to rely on some other mathematical facts. The fact that some players win lottery more often then other players vs The fact that some poker players hit the money in tourneys more often then other players. It's basically the same if we're talking about micro buy-in games. The lottery vs micro buy-in. A lot of people do random things, just because it costs nothing or close to nothing.

Fact #3 - You need approx 2-3 hours to hit min. cash in micro tourneys with normal blind speed. Min cash is something like +1 buy-in. If it's 1$, then most probably you win +1$ after spending 3 hours, so the value of first 3 hours is something like 30cents per hour.

So, you can wash floors for something like 5-10-20$ per hour and it will be guaranteed cash, or you can sit in your chair and try to win 30cents per hour by hitting min cash. Isn't it stupid? Why not skip the bullsh!t and just shrink first 3 hours of lottery to like 10 minutes of massive all-ins? If we accept that random generator works fine then there is no difference in how you hit the min cash in terms of shuffling and gameplay, but there is huge difference in time.

Time of your life is not a never ending process. 100 years is 876K hours, and you will be sleeping 30% of that time, soem time has passed already... SO being objective and checking the facts I would say that playing first 3 hours of such 1$ buy-in tourneys is something like shooting in your leg. It won't kill you, but it will shrink the useful time of your life.

P.S. The normal logical scheme for human is to 1) Think 2) Act 3) Feel... Advertisement specialists worked hard during past 50-60 years to change this scheme. Majority of humans Feel, then Act and then Think why they did it. It works well for impulsive purchases and things like online poker. Ok I feel like it works, it doesn't cost too much, then i will do it(buy it) and then I will find and explanation why I did it.

Stupidity goes global

#9 January 10th, 2021, 9:35 PM

Originally Posted by finaltable1

Ok, let's be serious if you want to. But more important - let's be objective, let's check the facts, and facts only.

Fact #1 - What do you know about card shuffling in online poker? Nothing. You have no facts which you can prove with experiment. All that you see is the picture at your screen. There is no practical way how you can prove if it's random or not. It looks legit and you feel that you can trust it - it's based on your feelings, not facts.

Fact #2 - Since you can't prove the fundamental base - you have to rely on some other mathematical facts. The fact that some players win lottery more often then other players vs The fact that some poker players hit the money in tourneys more often then other players. It's basically the same if we're talking about micro buy-in games. The lottery vs micro buy-in. A lot of people do random things, just because it costs nothing or close to nothing.

Fact #3 - You need approx 2-3 hours to hit min. cash in micro tourneys with normal blind speed. Min cash is something like +1 buy-in. If it's 1$, then most probably you win +1$ after spending 3 hours, so the value of first 3 hours is something like 30cents per hour.

So, you can wash floors for something like 5-10-20$ per hour and it will be guaranteed cash, or you can sit in your chair and try to win 30cents per hour by hitting min cash. Isn't it stupid? Why not skip the bullsh!t and just shrink first 3 hours of lottery to like 10 minutes of massive all-ins? If we accept that random generator works fine then there is no difference in how you hit the min cash in terms of shuffling and gameplay, but there is huge difference in time.

Time of your life is not a never ending process. 100 years is 876K hours, and you will be sleeping 30% of that time, soem time has passed already... SO being objective and checking the facts I would say that playing first 3 hours of such 1$ buy-in tourneys is something like shooting in your leg. It won't kill you, but it will shrink the useful time of your life.

P.S. The normal logical scheme for human is to 1) Think 2) Act 3) Feel... Advertisement specialists worked hard during past 50-60 years to change this scheme. Majority of humans Feel, then Act and then Think why they did it. It works well for impulsive purchases and things like online poker. Ok I feel like it works, it doesn't cost too much, then i will do it(buy it) and then I will find and explanation why I did it.

Stupidity goes global

Obviously nobody are going to have a high hourly winrate playing 1,1$ MTTs, and therefore they should be played either for fun or practice. You dont get practice by playing poorly like ramming and jamming early in a tournament, and for most people its not very fun either.

#10 January 11th, 2021, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by fundiver199

If you are not willing to take a game serious, then there is no point in playing it, unless maybe its a freeroll. Your suggestion is just a way of donating money to the price pool.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Obviously nobody are going to have a high hourly winrate playing 1,1$ MTTs, and therefore they should be played either for fun or practice. You dont get practice by playing poorly like ramming and jamming early in a tournament, and for most people its not very fun either.

I've highlighted your comments. At first you're saying that $1mtts should be played seriously, next day you're saying that they should be played for fun or practice.

And you're completely missing the point. My point wasn't about single player going all-in. My point was about tourney structure in general. Instead of wasting billions of human hours poker sites should skip first 2-3 hours of masturbation before "the money stage" and replace this stage with total all-in, so that massive all-in stage ends in like 10 minutes after the tourney start and remaining players are in the money, after this tourney resumes to normal poker with 6-8-10-15 minute blinds. Isn't it obvious? 3 hours of wasted time replaced with 10 minutes?

Why don't poker sites do that? Ohh yeah, the late registration = more players = more rake.

#11 January 11th, 2021, 9:58 PM

Reading the opponent helped you and the result was not long in coming. The worst thing that could happen is 4 calls to your re-raise. This is very expensive information. Other players may think that your hand is much stronger than 44, seeing after a raise and re-raise.

#12 January 12th, 2021, 12:31 AM

This is why I turn the chat off, when I'm online

When live, I really enjoy needling these guys further into tilt

#13 January 12th, 2021, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by finaltable1

I've highlighted your comments. At first you're saying that $1mtts should be played seriously, next day you're saying that they should be played for fun or practice.

If you play for practice, you are playing seriously, so I dont see any contradiction at all.

Originally Posted by finaltable1

And you're completely missing the point. My point wasn't about single player going all-in. My point was about tourney structure in general. Instead of wasting billions of human hours poker sites should skip first 2-3 hours of masturbation before "the money stage" and replace this stage with total all-in, so that massive all-in stage ends in like 10 minutes after the tourney start and remaining players are in the money, after this tourney resumes to normal poker with 6-8-10-15 minute blinds. Isn't it obvious? 3 hours of wasted time replaced with 10 minutes?

As far as I know, no poker sites offer MTTs with such a format, and as players we can only choose to play, what is actually offered. Personally I would not be interested in such a format also, since it would take away a lot of my skill edge.

#14 January 15th, 2021, 6:47 AM

Actually I need to correct my last statement, because apparently GG Poker is now offering exactly such a format. Now it all makes sense to me. Finaltable1 is a GG Poker shill and was looking to promote GG Pokers latest rake machine Just Had Some "Genius" Raging At Me Over This All-In

#15 January 15th, 2021, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by YogSothoth

First few hands of a full-ring $1.10 NLHE tournament.

UTG+1 and LJ limp, HJ raises 4.5 BB. I re-raise with a pot-size bet on the button with... 44... Hear me out.

UTG+1 and LJ fold.

He calls.

Flop comes: 3d - 5s - 8c

HJ jams.

I call.

Here's the thing, I really do grind the $1.10 games and take notes. I prefer to multi-table when I play, it stops me placing too much importance on single games, so I like to have a 1.10 game and a 4.50 - 7.50 game going. Point is, anyway, I have notes on this guy, the most important of which are these:

Jammed pre-flop with JJ after re-raised.
Jammed pre-flop with 99 after re-raised.
Jammed pre-flop with 66 after re-raised.

See a pattern? So, knowing that he has raised 4.5BB, has just been re-raised and is now calling, I presume a few things. He doesn't have AA, KK or QQ. Looking at my notes, I'd also make the more tenuous assumption that he doesn't have a pair, because three times before over two games - twice in early stages, once in mid stages - I've seen this guy jam. I've also seen him play badly post-flop - easily bullied, jams with nothing after losing a few big blinds and just generally bad play. So what do I assume he has?

AK, AQ, KQ, QJ - not a pair.

Whatever he has, I'm slightly - very slightly - ahead of him on the flip.

Do I KNOW this? No, but I'm properly bankrolled and willing to take the risk on my little 1.10 game.

He has AQ.

I win the flip. He says nothing. But poker genius LJ goes f*****g bananas in the chat on and off for a whole hour. His main issues being he folded JJ, I'm a donkey of illegitimate birth, my mother is prostitute (and presumably also a donkey?)

I never retaliate on chat, but I'd like to think CC community has my back here. Firstly, who the f**k limps with JJ and then folds when I three-bet the HJ? That board was perfect for jacks and it was hardly a huge pot.

I was basically paying for information when I re-raised. Had HJ jammed pre-flop, I would have folded. Considering it was a $1.10 buy-in, and I was pretty sure I was slightly ahead in terms of equity, I was happy flipping.

I like it.

People don't re-raise remotely enough, when they do they have AK or a large pair which is worse than not re-raising. Popping it with 44 is great.

I also like the flop with your hand.

People get upset when they are facing something they don't understand in poker. Let them get mad and keep stacking their chips.

#16 January 15th, 2021, 5:56 PM

Good read. I try to ignore the �genius � players who always know all the right moves yet always seem to be losing players.

#17 January 16th, 2021, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by fundiver199

If you play for practice, you are playing seriously, so I dont see any contradiction at all.

As far as I know, no poker sites offer MTTs with such a format, and as players we can only choose to play, what is actually offered. Personally I would not be interested in such a format also, since it would take away a lot of my skill edge.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

Actually I need to correct my last statement, because apparently GG Poker is now offering exactly such a format. Now it all makes sense to me. Finaltable1 is a GG Poker shill and was looking to promote GG Pokers latest rake machine Just Had Some "Genius" Raging At Me Over This All-In

I'm not promoting anything related to online poker, because after being winning player, and spending many years grinding 8-16 tables at the same time I finally got it. I perfectly understood philosophy of online poker and of what I was doing, what kind of money i make, what kind of progress for my character online poker is giving me. If you can't clearly see it - online poker is a parasite for parasites and owned/operated by parasites who extract profit from imbeciles who think that poker is something that is important, while it's not, it doesn't create any useful, healthful or progressive product for the society. Online poker trades your most valuable resource - time of your life for such bullshit that you currently think of "my poker skill". The money in online poker are not generated for the good of the society, instead they are extracted from the real economy for virtual things. You can not prove with experiment that online poker and random generators are truly random and legit, nobody has access to the code of online poker software. Rake and virtual feeling of playing in company is something that replaces real life with degenerative virtual image of real life. Online poker vs real poker is the same like masturbation with online poker vs real sex.

Why has it happened and why many people will defend their position? Because online poker as a game provides dophamine and serothonine for cheap in safe environment for the consumer (player), in such perspective online poker isn't different from drugs(narcotics), alcohol and such things. Advertisement specialists worked well to change consumers way of thinking, during past 50 years instead of 1-2-3, things have turned upside down and majority of people are doing 3-2-1. ///// 1) = Think ///// 2) = Act ///// 3) = Feel ///// Today majority of the society feels like they want to do or to buy something and later after the transaction (purchase/game..) humans are explaining to themselves why they did it. This is what going to happen when someone is trying to explain the useful sides of online poker. a) they have spent many years playing it b) they don't want to accept the position which represents them as idiots who spent many years sitting in a chair infront of the monitor instead of travelling around the world or saving lives being surgeon or building bridges, for example...

#18 January 17th, 2021, 3:58 PM

A little experience in playing at small limits. Advice on hot tournaments at these limits. If you have Ah Kj Kq go allin and you will be the chip leader.

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Just Had Some "Genius" Raging At Me Over This All-In

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