JJ, QQ, KK.

How do you play these hands late in a tournament pre-flop. I recently shoved at a raise with QQ just to get called by a KK and knocked out in 5th place. I felt like it was a good shove but the results said otherwise. How do you play these situations....should I have just called his raise and seen the flop?

If less 10 BB this hands only shove, if more need look your position and how to play table , but standart size open this 2 bb.

Depends on who raised and your stack. Less than about 15BB is a shove, unless it's a slow/regular tournament, which you're shoving around 8-10BB and lower unless you are incredibly shortstacked compared to the others at your table. I agree with the shove if you were shortstacked. You are in great shape against all hands except AA and KK. AK is a coinflip and the others you are beating.

Like others have said dependent on stack size, position and what the pay outs are.
If I'm healthy stack (30+ BBs) I like to make a small open regardless off position and I decide what to do If i get raised based on how my opponents are playing and their stack sizes

It depends on all the things listed above but if you are playing a turbo tournament i would almost never fold those hands

Swickster007 said:

How do you play these hands late in a tournament pre-flop. I recently shoved at a raise with QQ just to get called by a KK and knocked out in 5th place. I felt like it was a good shove but the results said otherwise. How do you play these situations....should I have just called his raise and seen the flop?

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Are you short? If so, QQ is usually a shove-only in this situation. If you've got a nice stack, there's no reason to risk it all here. I'd open with 2 or 3 BB OOP to see where I stand.

If you had called his raise and seen a flop, let's say 9 5 3, most likely you still would have followed him to showdown.

Sometimes this is just the way that cards fly. Remember, you can't be results-oriented. You have to look at what is and isn't a profitable play in the long term.

Even if you just call with QQ and see the flop. Your still in big trouble unless the flop lands an A or king. It'll still be a tough fold. Late in tournaments we are playing against time and the blind structure as much as we are playing the other players.

I actually had his stack covered but only by around 1.5 bb's, so I was inevitably out shortly thereafter. We both had nice size stacks at the time, around 25k and 24k with 2k blinds. Chip lead was 100k tho and folded earlier. Small stack was about 11k and then there was a 50k for 2nd. I know it's always a risk to go all in pre-flop (or any time for that matter) but I just didn't know if others would have done the same thing as me. Just trying to reduce my losses. I jump on pocket pairs too often and lose all my gains.

It depends on stack sizes.
If you have less 10BB then automatic shove.
If not, have to bet or raise for value.

if u play a slow preflop . KA turn up on the flop your putting dout in your mind , with 5 players left . get your chips in 1st

You had about 12 BBs? Id say shove. Blinds are big and getting bigger and you have QQ. I think u did right....you can't let results oriented thinking (the fact he happened to have KK) say otherwise.

QQ better to raise 2.5 bb/call all ins l/a + l/p opps
KK min raise / re-raise/ all in anyone
JJ raise 2bb / call 2-3 bb+. But re raise 4bb+ fold

abzdolc said:

QQ better to raise 2.5 bb/call all ins l/a + l/p opps
KK min raise / re-raise/ all in anyone
JJ raise 2bb / call 2-3 bb+. But re raise 4bb+ fold

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DON'T. DON'T use a separate bet size for different hands. It is way too exploitable by good players. Use the same bet sizing with every hand, you may just want to differ your sizing from different positions if you feel like it but not based on the strength of your hand. Every open raise you make preflop must represent your whole range, otherwise you are extremely easy to exploit once someone get a semi decent sample size on you.
Especially in tournaments where stacks are generally pretty shallow and preflop play is much much more important than cash games as you get all in preflop very often, you do not want to be giving away information about your hand.

To answer OP, with <15bb stack and a hand as strong as QQ, you can never fold. You just got coolered. In this case it didn't matter since you should never fold QQ with your stack size barring satellite bubbles but next time try to give information about villain's position your position, his table image your table image etc, just as much information as possible. We don't even know if you open shoved, 3b shoved, or 4b shoved, are there limpers what not, although from your post I gather villain open raised(amount?) and you 3b shoved. Otherwise its hard to give feedback.

tohos said:

DON'T. DON'T use a separate bet size for different hands. It is way too exploitable by good players. Use the same bet sizing with every hand, you may just want to differ your sizing from different positions if you feel like it but not based on the strength of your hand. Every open raise you make preflop must represent your whole range, otherwise you are extremely easy to exploit once someone get a semi decent sample size on you.

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I admire this point and I think it's an easy tell for a lot of people who tend to raise, dependent upon their holdings. What do you suggest vs. a calling station, for example you wake up with KK and you want some action but you don't want the CS OTB to suck out on you?




OP, this is a great question. As most everyone else has offered, <12 BB, you gotta shove those ladies and get all your chips in pre-flop

Thanks for all the replies. I am still a beginner so I am taking all of the advice in. I like it all and can see mixing them up, especially since I already mix up my plays.

Swickster007 said:

How do you play these hands late in a tournament pre-flop. I recently shoved at a raise with QQ just to get called by a KK and knocked out in 5th place. I felt like it was a good shove but the results said otherwise. How do you play these situations....should I have just called his raise and seen the flop?

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yyaaahhh for being results oriented,......

i hope you catch the sarcasm


Focus on process results will take care of itself longterm

At a table with 5 players and 11bbs left then I nearly always shove with either of these 3 hands. If a pay step was life changing money and there was critical size stack I might even fold aces to a stack that has me covered and risking it all. If you are playing to win then what are you waiting for vs 4 opponents? Most times, simply calling in this situation doesn't leave much fold equity.