was this jam out of line?

keep in mind, my tag on this total fish was "total fish" and i mean, he puts his money in 63% of the time without thinking meaning hes waking up with WAY worse here but this time he wakes up with cowboys and i cry.... i eventually take all my chips back when he jams over my UTG raise vs an all in bounty in the BB with a 4ts and i snapped it off with kto.. thats how loose this goose is so again, i ask.. was this wrong?

id post this in the hand review section but i dont need review, just need confirmation that my jam wasnt insane and im not crazy, just have bad luck


partypoker - 17000/34000 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 6 playersHand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 13.64 BB (VPIP: 29.17, PFR: 4.35, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 24)
BTN: 82.07 BB (VPIP: 62.90, PFR: 14.52, 3Bet Preflop: 13.79, Hands: 62)
SB: 2.2 BB (VPIP: 17.14, PFR: 7.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 70)
Hero (BB): 144.94 BB
UTG: 59.43 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
MP: 82.58 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 29.17, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 24)

6 players post ante of 0.11 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.19 BB) Hero has 9:club: 9:spade:

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 4 BB, fold, Hero raises to 144.83 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 77.96 BB and is all-in

Flop: (165.1 BB, 2 players) K:spade: A:diamond: J:heart:

Turn: (165.1 BB, 2 players) A:heart:

River: (165.1 BB, 2 players) 3:heart:

BTN shows K:club: K:diamond: (Full House, Kings full of Aces)
(Pre 81%, Flop 99%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows 9:club: 9:spade: (Two Pair, Aces and Nines)
(Pre 19%, Flop 1%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 62.87 BB
BTN wins 165.1 BB

Hi Nick, I really don't understand your 3Bet shove in this situation. You are the overwhelming chip leader with a super deep stack, and are risking half of your stack with a medium pocket pair. I understand that this player is very fishy, and you've a good read etc but I think you risked too much equity on this hand. Let's look at this in terms of stack sizes, you have 144.94 Big Blinds and are in no hurry to take big gambles. Yes your nines are ahead of a good chunk of his range but on many hands, you will be close to coin flipping or doing 60/40. This is not a good risk to take when you are likely to win the tournament. You have about 38% of all the chips in play which gives you a hammer-lock on the table. This allows you to bully the other stacks and continue accumulating more chips. The player you were up against is not a thinking opponent, and is likely to call with many junk hands as well as strong hands.. this spews your huge equity all over the table and losing 78bb on a marginal shove will put you back to an average stack size, where you will have lost your ability to use your stack to bully. A flat call to see a flop and set mine with the nines would have given you a nice opportunity to stack him if you hit. It also protects your valuable huge stack. Having that many chips will allow you to make good ICM decisions and win more chips frequently in later hands. Moves like this should only be made on tight regs with low WTSD's and high fold to 3Bets. You simply have too much to lose. The others at the table are going to be getting desperate soon, take advantage of their shorter stacks, steal their blinds and only make big shoves/calls against stacks who cannot cripple you. Don't over adjust to fishy players. Just because their range is wide, doesn't mean they can't have a strong hand. Remember that the chips you gain in a tournament are not worth as much (per chip) as the one's you risked to get them. This means you need a range which is better than a 2:1 favourite against the Villain range. A range like {JJ+ AKs} seems about right here, but for that level of stack exposure I would probably tighten that to {QQ+}*. Hope this helps. R


*This range may seem overly conservative but I don't believe that it is. Risking half of such a huge stack is not worth it unless you are big favourite to win. A range like QQ+ achieves this, and I would even push that to KK+ in many situations.

I agree - its way too risky to shove in that situation - a call or even a small re-raise would have been much better, especially given the chip stack amounts.

I understand that the villain was super loose, but there wasn't any point in risking over half your stack pre-flop on that hand.

In the later stages of the tournament with that much of a lead, it would serve you better to play a little more cautiously. If you would have raised his 4bb up to say 10bb, He would more than likely come over the top, in which case you would be able to easily fold after some deliberation. Remember 99s, are only marginally good hands. only a slight favorite even to a hand like J-10. It doesnt take much to get beat. And if he was playing like a total fish, then it looks like he made a pretty good move here because to him he wanted to represent a exactly what he did: that he would be moving in like a fish.

thanks guys, thats exactly what i needed to hear. as much i wanna think this was in line, if i just flat called or made a normal 3.5x 3bet id have a chance to fold to the flop or his jam.... but then the question, if i think hes a total fish than would i fold to his jam?.... i would have had a huge opportunity to get away after a flop so.... that makes calling the best choice here?

i guess i was just crazy

Ragequit said:

*This range may seem overly conservative but I don't believe that it is. Risking half of such a huge stack is not worth it unless you are big favourite to win. A range like QQ+ achieves this, and I would even push that to KK+ in many situations.

Click to expand...

it would seem overly conservative but time and time again i watch JJ run into AKs or KK in this exact same spot so QQ+ is probably better... maybe even KK+... i could probably pull up a few tagged hands from some other tourneys last night where i ran into better with QQ in this spot, too...

thanks again.