ITM % Question

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aussiecardshark

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Hey all

I play 10 seater sit n gos, and just starting to build a BR..

I am using and playing around with sharkscope.. and figuring out a few things..

I am just wondering what my ITM should be, or what I should aim for.. im guessing over 50% right?

Cheers
 
dcor

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I'm no sng guru by any means but I think that 50% is a little high......that seems to me, almost unsustainable.
 
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aussiecardshark

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Well ive been told that in HU games it has to be higher than 55%

But ive been told that you should place ITM 7 out of 10 times..that being roughly 70%.. that almost seems astronomical 70%

Anyone know? Please I need to know! :)
 
cardplayer52

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In a 9man SNG w/top 3 getting paid ~40% ITM is good. I'm not sure about 10mans but if there double or nothings you probably need about 55% ITM to show any profit at all.
 
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aussiecardshark

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Thanks..

Yeah 10 mans on ipoker.. top 3 paid.. My current ITM is around 38% so i feel a bit better..
 
Mase31683

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I have an ITM% of 47.4, and that gives an ROI of 44%. This is pretty high as it is though, so 50% plus is just sick.
 
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tdude

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50% seems very profitable. it seems too profitable, but my friend seems to always get in the money on poker stars. the other day he told me that he was itm in 6 person sngs 6 out of the 7 games he played. i guess that is probably rare for him because he told me about it, but he does very well so i would think he is close to 50%
 
salim271

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50% seems very profitable. it seems too profitable, but my friend seems to always get in the money on poker stars. the other day he told me that he was itm in 6 person sngs 6 out of the 7 games he played. i guess that is probably rare for him because he told me about it, but he does very well so i would think he is close to 50%

Damn, what a beast. Does he tutor?? :D lol.
 
tpb221

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The most important thing is ROI.

Ex: At stars the 3.40 sng goes are paid out 50-30-20 percent. So 1st-13.50, 2nd-8.10 and 3rd-5.40

If you play 100 games and you come 3rd 60 times(60%ITM) you would win $324 dollars which is less then the $340 it cost to enter 100 sng.

If you played 100 games and you came in 1st 26(26%ITM) you would win $351 which is $11 dollars more than the $340 it cost to enter 100 sng.

What would you rather have-a 60% ITM or 26% ITM.

ROI is what is important. Yes, you can use your ITM stat to improve your game-ie.. if you see you have to many 4th places then that may be a leak.


Best of luck.
 
tpb221

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Well ive been told that in HU games it has to be higher than 55%

But ive been told that you should place ITM 7 out of 10 times..that being roughly 70%.. that almost seems astronomical 70%

Anyone know? Please I need to know! :)


Sorry if this is a double post.

HU is much different than 9/10 man sng. First you HAVE to win over 50% to be a winner. Next you have to beat the rake.

EX. 100 hu sng at 5.00 + .50 rake means you have to win 55% just to break even. At .30 rake it would be 53% just to break even.

To get 10% ROI at .50 rake you would need to win 60.5% of your games.
To get 10% ROI at .30 rake you would need to win 58.3% of your games.
 
sickflopz_yo

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LOL anything of the 50% region is unrealistic if youve played enough tournaments. Let's say if you had a fiar amount like 100 tournaments, an avg ITM would be at 10% anything from 11-15% solid cashings and from 16 to low 20s% means your a an awesome tournament player. Other if it's below that 10% region you shouldnt be plaing tournamens thats often and if it's 50% or so as you say it's really inrealistic or you jus thaven't played enough tourneys for it to even out. i hope this helps
 
Poker Orifice

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LOL anything of the 50% region is unrealistic if youve played enough tournaments. Let's say if you had a fiar amount like 100 tournaments, an avg ITM would be at 10% anything from 11-15% solid cashings and from 16 to low 20s% means your a an awesome tournament player. Other if it's below that 10% region you shouldnt be plaing tournamens thats often and if it's 50% or so as you say it's really inrealistic or you jus thaven't played enough tourneys for it to even out. i hope this helps

You're referring to MTT's... I believe OP is talking about STT SNG's.
As far as MTT's go... in the high buyins the top guys in the leaderboard typically have ITM 11% (varies from ~10-12 but with most being 11%).
In SNG's (STT) 40% ITM is good. Below 35% and you're probably a losing player in the longrun.
In lower buyin MTTs, a 'good player' will have an ITM of more around the 15-20% range.
SNG (STT) stats. don't mean much in the short run (ie. I've had weeks... as in 3wks at a time where I've ran with an ROI of 65%+.. but I've also had 20 losses in-a-row too... it's the nature of the game).
 
tpb221

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^^^^^+1

Op was talking about sng not MTT. In MTT alot of it also depends on what the payout structure is. If you are playing tourneys with 10% of players getting paid your overall win rate will be lower then if you only played tourneys that pay 20% of the players entered.
 
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I used to be horrendous at SNGs (though a lot of the losses unfortunately came before I learned to vaguely control my tilt factor), so you may not want me to be the one coaching you or anything...however, I'm relatively certain I watched a video where the pro discussed this. He mentioned that 15-20% ROI at lower stakes should be considered very good, but obviously at higher stakes as talent progresses and profit is larger, 3% can be considered an extremely strong ROI.
 
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Tpb, your example is flawed.

If you finish ITM, there's a good chance of improving your position to 2nd or 1st, but if you try to go for 1st from the start, you'll find more often than not that you won't get ITM at all.

I think you should do what it takes to get in the money, after you got there, do what it takes to finish 1st.
 
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only_bridge

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The most important thing is ROI.

Ex: At stars the 3.40 sng goes are paid out 50-30-20 percent. So 1st-13.50, 2nd-8.10 and 3rd-5.40

If you play 100 games and you come 3rd 60 times(60%ITM) you would win $324 dollars which is less then the $340 it cost to enter 100 sng.

If you played 100 games and you came in 1st 26(26%ITM) you would win $351 which is $11 dollars more than the $340 it cost to enter 100 sng.

What would you rather have-a 60% ITM or 26% ITM.

ROI is what is important. Yes, you can use your ITM stat to improve your game-ie.. if you see you have to many 4th places then that may be a leak.


Best of luck.

ROI is not that important. I actually put up a goal once to have 100% ROI or better, until I started thinking about how silly that was.
You can have 200% ROI and make way less money than a player with 1% ROI.
 
brank

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How can a 1% Return On Investment(ROI) be better then a 200% Return On Investment? explain please....
 
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dan

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go on one of the sites that gives this info itm for good players in your game is 17-20% HU is a whole different animal !
1% on $1,000,000 9 man SNG
200% on $1 SNG
 
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only_bridge

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How can a 1% Return On Investment(ROI) be better then a 200% Return On Investment? explain please....

Its magic.
Here is another enigma for you:
How can one animal weigh more than 200 animals?

Actually, if you are playing for ROI you should play freerolls. Then you'll have infinite ROI.
 
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I aim to have a higher itm% than itm spots/number of players. I don't worry about where I might end up, I just play the cards and spots as they come. OPR stopped tracking them for me but I was around 45% in 1000+ games in the 9 person sngs with around 12% wins. Worked out ok.
 
brank

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1% on $1,000,000 9 man SNG
200% on $1 SNG

thanks, thats what i was lookin for

Its magic.

not really what i was lookin for

i guess i was thinking in terms of a player who plays at a certain level like $2 or $4 sngs or something and havin a ROI from their money. i dont know of many players who play both $1,000,000 sngs and $1 sngs so i didnt really put it in those terms.
 
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only_bridge

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thanks, thats what i was lookin for



not really what i was lookin for

i guess i was thinking in terms of a player who plays at a certain level like $2 or $4 sngs or something and havin a ROI from their money. i dont know of many players who play both $1,000,000 sngs and $1 sngs so i didnt really put it in those terms.
The thing is, if you have a very good ROI you are probably playing too low, at too few tables, so aiming for as good ROI as possible is actually contra productive.
 
tpb221

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First guys we are talking about sng not MTT witch are a different animal. Idanmel- no, my example is not flawed. Yes, it was extreme but I was showing how you could have a high ITM but still be a losing player. The goal of poker is to win money not get great ITM stats. Your ROI is important.

Yes, when you play at mirco sng's you can have a high ROI then move up in stakes and have a lower ROI and win more money. This is usually the way it happens. As you move up to higher stakes the competition gets better and you will have a lower ROI but on a greater investment.

When the pros look at there game and how to improve it the first question they ask is "How will this effect my ROI", not "how will this effect my ITM". There ROI% has a direct connection to how much money they are making.

Yes, your ITM stat has it's importance but pros will gladly give up a percent or 2 in there ITM to get a better ROI. EX... If a pro knows he can change his game to win 3 more 1st per hundred games but it will cost him 5 3rd place finishes per hundred games he will do it in a heart beat. His ITM% will go down but his ROI%(the money he is making) goes up.
 
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Hey all

I play 10 seater sit n gos, and just starting to build a BR..

I am using and playing around with sharkscope.. and figuring out a few things..

I am just wondering what my ITM should be, or what I should aim for.. im guessing over 50% right?

Cheers

50% ITM for 9plyr. sng's is even REALLY high.
Here's an example for ya... the guy who was #1 on the Sng Leaderboard for 2009 in the $5-$15 buyin level has an ITM of 39%. (his ROi is +9% but he regularly 20 tables them). He was also 7th in the $16-$35 level.
 
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