Is it possible to be a winning MTT player?

vegasjj

vegasjj

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I play mostly MTT's and yes on balance I am on the positive side.
So please forgive the title of the post - but the title IS RELEVANT to my point.

Here is some observation - question I have - and real curious of feedback/opinions.

I just finished in a MTT at FullTilt (a strange and fun game), but the payout structure is what we typically find in the large MTT's at pokerstars and FullTilt, that is very heavily favoring the winner of the game - and the final table.

In this example 2242 people started - I finished in 16th place - my reward = apx 13x the buy-in (0.50 was bounty and 0.20 fee)
That is I had to finish in the top 0.71% of the field to get this pay out. (16th of 2242)
or just under 1%. Or to put it in a different way - One in apx 140 starting people got as far as I did.
Or if all things are the same - mathematically - I should expect after every 140 starts to get this far. (Spend $2 x140 to get $26 or better back)
140 starts.. that is at one game a day - is nearly half a year... til next pay day of this size OR BETTER.

Of course should I actually get the real good thing (the win) - top pay was over $800! That sure makes-up for a whole bunch of no wins. But odds are APX. ONE IN 2200!!

As I said earlier I am on slightly positive side of $ overall ... so how come? I guess in good part is because of value added games like we get here at CC (THANK YOU CC); generally good game selection; SnG games and hate to say it - but playing games at sites that have a more flat payout structure.

I am a definite loser at Pokerstars - and I keep going back - just love the software - love the game selection - the quality of play (for the most part). Pretty much same is true about FullTilt.
But as an average player that just cannot really reach the top position in some big MTT - I think I am financing my "love affair" with these sites by winning my share at the other sites and in private games.

Please don't chop ME into pieces for this post - but feel free to point out the flaw(s) of my thinking. I'd be real happy if this "theory" is wrong.
Here is the tourney I used as an example
 

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duggs

duggs

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yea, if you are better than the average field by more than the rake then you will be a winning player, there are heaps of them
 
vegasjj

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yea, if you are better than the average field by more than the rake then you will be a winning player, there are heaps of them

I am trying to point to out that it seems to me that it is not enough to be better then the average player just by the rake... or so it seems to me
 
duggs

duggs

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what you are pointing out is that variance is huge, which it is
 
Debi

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The big wins won't come often but if you put in enough volume and you have patience they will come. (Assuming you are a good player and have an edge).

I was the opposite of you - I was a winning MTT player at Pokerstars but was usually in the hole at the smaller sites. But my big wins at PS made up for the smaller losses.

If I had never touched sng's my online winnings would have been very nice - but I suck at sng's and they ate up a lot of my MTT profit. I played them to get volume in - would never do that again lol.

Now I only play at small sites and mostly just CC games and I am probably up at all of them. But like you said that is due to the money added value.

In a nutshell though - you have to get some final tables and more importantly some top 3 wins to make money. Just cashing won't do it for you.
 
Suited Frenzy

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The big wins won't come often but if you put in enough volume and you have patience they will come. (Assuming you are a good player and have an edge).

I was the opposite of you - I was a winning MTT player at Pokerstars but was usually in the hole at the smaller sites. But my big wins at PS made up for the smaller losses.

If I had never touched sng's my online winnings would have been very nice - but I suck at sng's and they ate up a lot of my MTT profit. I played them to get volume in - would never do that again lol.

Now I only play at small sites and mostly just CC games and I am probably up at all of them. But like you said that is due to the money added value.

In a nutshell though - you have to get some final tables and more importantly some top 3 wins to make money. Just cashing won't do it for you.

+1 to this ^^^^^

I have played against you on the same table a few times when we used to have the OFC games. You're a solid player.

Game selection holds a big part imo. If you pick & play the correct games that fit your playing style, you'll be great in the long run. Keep the volume of games up & keep your patience & you'll succeed.

Most importantly, keep your faith up that you will succeed. A positive mindset is key.
 
vegasjj

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Thank you very much for the wonderful answers!

And - I am not about to give-up on MTT's - it is the most fun and the most excitement. Other games are a lot of fun too - but there is nothing like a big MTT.

Personally - I would have a way more positive result (financially) if I did not play the big MTT's - but yes if just once a big one happens - it sure will more then make it worth while. To me it seems that all the stars have to be lined-up the right way for it to happen. Yes you need to be a good to great player to pull it off - but I think you cannot do it if luck is not solidly on your side. At least that is what that 1 of 2200 or whatever the odds might be in a game are telling me. It is totally amazing Dakota - that you were able to reach top positions often! Is there a secret you can share? I understand even more why you miss Pokerstars - there might be some sort of a "synergy" between your games style and the software...

I happen to believe also that positive attitude (may make no sense) does have a huge impact on the games - still the math says - it is really against the odds to win big.

I guess I will keep doing what I'm doing... and finance the big MTT's ... HAVE FUN playing them (often it is no fun at all) and just be ready to hit the big one :)
 
micalupagoo

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i sure hope so,
i run deep often enough, and have had a few good wins (tho I donk it all away on ring or high buyins)
but after all these yrs, where is my big money???
makes me just wanna go to work more sometimes
I know you play a good game JJ, hopefully we all get rich off this :)
 
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stubbie32

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I just play MTT's and i am a small winning player.I think the main keys are sticking to BRM and also continually studing how the better MTT players are playing.I have found as well as this site Pokertube a wonderfull site for learning bet sizing positional play etc when to 3 and 4 bet etc.
 
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