Is it ever wrong to shove short stacked with a nut flush draw?

A

angrybanana

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Is it ever wrong to shove short stacked on the turn with a nut flush draw after a 3X raise from an EP player?
 
horizon12

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About the short stack, here it is necessary to clarify what size , it is very important... If 3 BB call , if around 10 BB fold..
 
TeUnit

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this is stack size, villan, and format dependent
 
thetick33

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i personally believe cards come 98% of time and really do not like shoving when behind. I mean you can play king ten limp in catch 10 7 4 and shove is just better odds to me if is a rainbow than me trying to catch a draw.

I also tend to wait on the draw might call did yesterday had 28 k chip stack blinds about 1k flop hit 2 4 10 had ace 5 hearts guy bet 3k a heart hit no pairs on board he bet 11 k I had major outs 6 people paid 40 some players left I was in top 11 people I called 3 hit so had the wheel and he went all in.

Had a guy tell me was crazy for the original 3k bet call. Blinds were a grand lol. Was a turbo if was 20 people pay probably play a little tighter but went for it.

Is not something I do often though. I have the patience to wait for hands that are set or pockets etc.. I did finish 5th got a bad beat with pockets final hand.

I also had similar thing as am saying twice was down to blind coming up when jj and 99 hit. I kept folding and waiting for the right time. I moneyed small money but moneyed both events by waiting for the pockets even though hit a desperate time.

Yet truly believe will get a good enough hand that at least have a shot if am patient. Not saying this is right for everyone just me I am not going to push with 8-2 cause am down stacked.

Last week I went to a final table played two hands and finished fourth. I was card dead and didnt deserve that finish at all lol. Yet usually for me this patience pays off.

So I wouldnt chase is up to you though are you lucky hitting etc..

I tend not to push luck unless really hitting on rushes etc..
 
joker131

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just like flipping a coin. not a good idea better hands preflop if u want to get them in,
 
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Is it ever wrong to shove short stacked on the turn with a nut flush draw after a 3X raise from an EP player?
Well, if you're a short stack already, you really shouldn't be seeing a flop with chips behind. Either fold it or get it all in preflop. Unless you're BB and you check your option.

As for the example, it depends on your chip stack in relation to the size of the 3x BB raise. If call is committing you to the pot, then either fold it or get it all in already. If you have 10BBs behind, you might have enough to get them to fold to a shove, but if they dont, you still have a lot of outs with the flush and possibly an overcard draw. Or my favorite, they're drawing to a weaker flush.

Honestly, I'm shoving with the nut flush draw, especially if I'm getting bet into on a dry board because in this situation, what other flop am I hoping to hit? Except for the flopping the nut flush. If you're limping/calling a raise with an suited Ace hand, just to fold when you flop a nut flush draw, then don't play that hand in the first place. You're just wasting chips.
 
kidkvno1

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A short staked player would not be calling with suited hands!
It's all in or fold, once your M gets below 10...
 
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I'm assuming tournaments? Don't like leaving it to the turn, flop yes.
 
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ph_il

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i personally believe cards come 98% of time

...What the hell does this even mean?

and really do not like shoving when behind. I mean you can play king ten limp in catch 10 7 4 and shove is just better odds to me if is a rainbow than me trying to catch a draw.

...What the hell does this even mean v2.0? Are you saying it's better odds for you if someone shoves in on a rainbow flop instead of shoving when they hit top pair/good kicker?

I also tend to wait on the draw might call did yesterday had 28 k chip stack blinds about 1k flop hit 2 4 10 had ace 5 hearts guy bet 3k a heart hit no pairs on board he bet 11 k I had major outs 6 people paid 40 some players left I was in top 11 people I called 3 hit so had the wheel and he went all in.

...Punctuations are your friends. With that said, you played that hand pretty bad and got lucky. This whole 'waiting on the draw' excuse is just a cover up for bad play. Assuming it was you 2 in the hand, there was 5K in the pot after the flop bet. You had to call 3K to win 5K and you're getting 1:6 odds on your money to try and hit the gutshot 3, which is 10:1 odds. Even if we want to give you 3 extra outs for the overcard, it's still 5:4 odds to hit.

On the turn, the flop is 8K and opponent bets 11K, meaning you have to call 11K to win a 19K pot, which is giving odds of 1:7 to hit. Even if you had 15 outs (flush draw, wheel, and overcard A), it's still a 1:9 to hit, so you aren't getting the correct odds to call.

Had a guy tell me was crazy for the original 3k bet call. Blinds were a grand lol. Was a turbo if was 20 people pay probably play a little tighter but went for it.

...Yeah, he's right. it was a bad call. And who cares what the blinds were? You were getting the wrong odds to call. You weren't even getting the correct implied odds to call. Also, in you're example, you played this poorly when it paid 6 places, but you say you'd play tighter if it paid out 20? How does that even make sense?

Is not something I do often though. I have the patience to wait for hands that are set or pockets etc.. I did finish 5th got a bad beat with pockets final hand.

...So, you don't make really bad plays often for 50% of your stack? That's good to hear, but don't make it so you're rewarding yourself for bad play when your hands do hit.

I also had similar thing as am saying twice was down to blind coming up when jj and 99 hit. I kept folding and waiting for the right time. I moneyed small money but moneyed both events by waiting for the pockets even though hit a desperate time.

Yet truly believe will get a good enough hand that at least have a shot if am patient. Not saying this is right for everyone just me I am not going to push with 8-2 cause am down stacked.

...playing too tight and waiting for big hands to come when your stack is low and blinds are high is very leaky. Yeah, you'll get lucky sometimes and min cash, but for the most part, you're losing a lot more than you're winning. Yes, patience is good to have and knowing when to pick your spots is also crucial, but you shouldn't always base your decisions on your cards dealt but on the situation you're in.

Last week I went to a final table played two hands and finished fourth. I was card dead and didnt deserve that finish at all lol. Yet usually for me this patience pays off.

So I wouldnt chase is up to you though are you lucky hitting etc..

...Don't rely on the luck of hitting, but instead determine if it's the right play for you to make. If you're playing based on luck and your decisions are made on things like "I feel the flush is coming", then you're not going to win in the long run. I would like to add that the OPs question of shoving with a nut flush draw is a far better play than the hand you played. In fact, you were the one chasing.

I tend not to push luck unless really hitting on rushes etc..
above.
 
Poker Orifice

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Is it ever wrong to shove short stacked on the turn with a nut flush draw after a 3X raise from an EP player?

It is not possible to give you a decent response to this.... there is too much information missing. Perhaps you could take a look at how some of the other handhistory posts are laid out to give you a better idea of how to present your own here. (for starters > stack sizes (& position) of all players on the table, size of the blinds, etc. etc.)
 
Egon Towst

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.. there is too much information missing.

^^ this.

You have approximately a 20 percent chance of making your flush on the end. There is also a chance that your opponent will fold, but that would depend on stack sizes and on your read as to whether he is good enough to fold a hand. We can`t judge these things without more info.
 
rancidcarp

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the odds of hitting arent in your favor.
 
romych007

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normally to play this hand. need a stack more and a lot more outs. so this game will be wrong
 
Poker Orifice

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the odds of hitting arent in your favor.


I just found this thread to be really helpful (when I was formally thinking the exact opposite).
... feeling a bit hungry while working at my desk, saw the 'Filet-o-Fish' McD's sandwich & am now heading out the door to grab one!

thanks rancidcarp!
 
Syltan

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Playing on pokerstars, how many times did not pusil always flew direct some provocation by PS. So I think there are moments.
 
thetick33

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I have a english prose issue due to health so will apologize but I do my best:)

Sometimes it gets very hectic and bad so wont carry on here but am sorry.

also was a freeroll for 1.00 six spots pay top 4 than 2 than four spots for a buck.

Was a whatever tournament.
 
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BigJamo

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I just found this thread to be really helpful (when I was formally thinking the exact opposite).
... feeling a bit hungry while working at my desk, saw the 'Filet-o-Fish' McD's sandwich & am now heading out the door to grab one!

thanks rancidcarp!

Now you have made me hungry too.
No Golden Arches for miles though :(
 
carv3523

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all is lucky... very variance in turn and river... the flush have very posibilites
 
eidikos

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no,i think you are committed to shove
its a great spot for you to shove
hard to find a better spot before you blind out
 
O

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Is it ever wrong to shove short stacked on the turn with a nut flush draw after a 3X raise from an EP player?

Not really, it depends a lot on how is the villain playing and if it is just after the flop/turn. If he is very agro, he 3x raise might be just to get some EV from your "short stack". If he is nit on the other hand, you better be folding.
Doing it after the flop is obviusly a lot better than doing it on the turn. :marchmell
 
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Depends on villains range, if you got nut flush along with overcards to pair up i'm happy to get it in.
 
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I would say there is always a time it is the wrong move. If you have a read about the villian then that is what makes your decision.. I go with blinds stack and how far off from the money.. If you are already itm then it makes my decision easier and I do it more..
 
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