ICM in the final table with respect to these hands.

Brandlad

Brandlad

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I have just finished at 7th spot in the $1000 Depositors freeroll on 888 today.

I was playing very well and I was chip leader in the final table once. But my A A and J J got cracked and I somehow manage to finish at 7th spot.

kindly look at the screenshot of the A A hand. Was that a good call or Should I have fold that hand as loosing was going to hit me in the last spot and it did happen.

The thing is what hand we are going to call an allin hand using ICM. I know if I did not call that Allins I was safe but again If i did win that hand then I were quite safe for final 3 spots but it did not happen and the next hand was J J and I was against A A and lost it.

Now if we apply ICM then should I have called that A A hand or not keeping the effect of lost and win?
 

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Brandlad

Brandlad

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Can Someone provide their inputs on ICM role in Final table? I mean "I am chip leader and there is a shove in front of me. I am holding A A. Loosing will half my stake and put me in last 8-9 spots. Winning will ensure my top 3 finish and folding will still put me into Chip leader position." It is a freeroll.

Kindly provide your inputs as I really wanna to know about Folding A A in FT and its implications.
 
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710suited

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Not too many players are folding with AA at that stage. Tough lay down.
 
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maximmaxim

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images do not increase.I do not understand what street you went to all the chips with aces.if you have the biggest bankroll and AA preflop - it’s impossible to throw out. as far as I understand the main idea of icm at the final table, that the prize for the first place is 10 times higher than the last place. even 50 to 50% playing preflop is not profitable on icm with equal stacks. but aces have 80% to win even against kings - I think it is beneficial for ICM
 
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10058765

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I would need a binocular to properly watch those pics.
However, there are ICM calculators, but aside from that, while ICM might dictate to fold even KK it will never dictate folding AA preflop.
 
Brandlad

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images do not increase.I do not understand what street you went to all the chips with aces.if you have the biggest bankroll and AA preflop - it’s impossible to throw out

In A A hand Villain shoved from middle position and I was at HiJack holding A A.

In J J hand I was at SB vs BB as rest of the table folded. I raised and and villain shoved holding A A vs my J J.

Both hands pushed me at last position and I somehow manage to end at 7th position.
 
Poker Orifice

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In A A hand Villain shoved from middle position and I was at HiJack holding A A.

In J J hand I was at SB vs BB as rest of the table folded. I raised and and villain shoved holding A A vs my J J.

Both hands pushed me at last position and I somehow manage to end at 7th position.


Write out the Hand History with ALL stacks shown on the table (type them out), blind sizes, & then also the payouts (the prizepool payouts). This is the only way someone can give you an accurate answer to your questions regarding decisions with ICM in mind.
 
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tmfnsanders

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I don't really think ICM is a huge factor in these 2 hands. They are both super standard and pretty much play themselves in HU pots in non satelite games. No one should EVER be folding AA preflop to a single shover just to ladder up and no one should fold JJ bvb without some epic soulread.

You got a few unlucky hands that knocked you from chipleader to busting the tournament, and I understand how bad that sucks because you probably could have just clicked the sit out button and made more money but think about if these hands went your way, you pretty much lock in the win every time and wouldn't even consider if these pays were correct or not- so it's not fair to yourself to question your plays based on being results oriented.
 
MatMackenz

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I dont think an ICM calculator would ever suggest folding 100% in any spot that is not a satellite payout structure.

The payout structure is usually very top heavy in large field MTTs, so there is always incentive to play for the win.

With that being said, AA is just too profitable for it too be a fold.. ever, you would have definitely increased your $EV in the tournament with the call.

I would have to know the stack sizes and payouts to be able to run it through an ICM Calculator, but I will make my best estimate. These ranges will not be perfect as you have left absolutely no information except postion and hole cards (cant see stack sizes in pic, too small). I ran my simulation with a couple stacks on the verge of busting out.

Hand 1 - Slam dunk, Fist-Pump All-In Pre-Flop w/ AA. Definately +$EV , If there is a few short stacks on risk of busting the you will want to call very tight here QQ+, AK only will be profitable.

Hand 2 - Clearly Profitable Push from BB w/ QQ

Hand 3 - JJ also very good call against the BB shove. 99+, AQs+, AKo+ showing as profitable calls in my simulations. You made the correct call here, sick cooler :help:

Again without the exact stack sizes and payouts these calculations will not be super accurate.

I don't really think ICM is a huge factor in these 2 hands. They are both super standard and pretty much play themselves in HU pots in non satelite games. No one should EVER be folding AA preflop to a single shover just to ladder up and no one should fold JJ bvb without some epic soulread.

You got a few unlucky hands that knocked you from chipleader to busting the tournament, and I understand how bad that sucks because you probably could have just clicked the sit out button and made more money but think about if these hands went your way, you pretty much lock in the win every time and wouldn't even consider if these pays were correct or not- so it's not fair to yourself to question your plays based on being results oriented.

ICM is always a factor at Final Tables that are not a winner take all structure. You must take stack size distribution and pay jumps into consideration before deciding if a move is profitable. But yes, these hands are clear pushes in most if not all scenarios.
 
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