ICM and dealing with "opponent frustration" factor

So this is an issue I've started to have to deal with more and more as I've amped up the aggression in my play, particularly when I'm at a table that seems tight in the later rounds and my shoving range widens.

The other night I was in a $2 NL HE SnG and chip leader with about 6000 chips. BB had 2000 chips, blinds were 150/300. We were on the bubble and the table was tight so I had been playing real aggressive, raising very loose on the bubble and shoving against the BB EVERY TIME when it was folded to me. My question is, at what point do you factor in "opponent frustration" to widen their range? How do you account for this? I shoved against him with Q3 suited, and he finally, after some time, called with A2o. However, I really doubt he would have made that call if I hadn't been shoving against him so liberally before. In other words, after shoving against him a couple times, should I start to add 5% or so to his range every time after that?

Really curious as to how fellow players deal with this.

jaded848 said:

So this is an issue I've started to have to deal with more and more as I've amped up the aggression in my play, particularly when I'm at a table that seems tight in the later rounds and my shoving range widens.

The other night I was in a $2 NL HE SnG and chip leader with about 6000 chips. BB had 2000 chips, blinds were 150/300. We were on the bubble and the table was tight so I had been playing real aggressive, raising very loose on the bubble and shoving against the BB EVERY TIME when it was folded to me. My question is, at what point do you factor in "opponent frustration" to widen their range? How do you account for this? I shoved against him with Q3 suited, and he finally, after some time, called with A2o. However, I really doubt he would have made that call if I hadn't been shoving against him so liberally before. In other words, after shoving against him a couple times, should I start to add 5% or so to his range every time after that?

Really curious as to how fellow players deal with this.

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He probably won't widen his range because it's the bubble and their only thought is to cash. Calling with the A2 is very very very bad. there is no hand expect from 23-2K that he's got decent equity against. Keep shoving on him until he gets pot commited by the blinds. Your q3 was only a 39% underdog. With the dead money in the blinds you were probably getting close to the correct pot odds plus has loads of fold equity. Keep pushing there from the sb and it's a +ev. trust me.

I'm not saying push every sb against everyone when stacks are shallow but do it when the blinds are large and your opponent is tightish and small or medium stacked.

most of these guys will call with any ace, any pair, and some broadway, around 20% of hands, but, this still isnt wide enough to make a shove from us unprofitable. hed have to call with stuff like k5 off suit to make it a bad shove. however, if you feel like he is going to make a call with like QJ, J9 those type hands you can just fold out the bottom of your range, the absolute junk like 8 2, 9 4 etc..

you can factor in something like that once ITM, when we hit the money, they are likely to make looser calls as they are probably sick of your raising. so we will obviously tighten our range somewhat.. but we tighten our range regardless off this once we hit ITM.

IF you shove on me every time eventually I'll shove back. At some point you have to think that someone will pick up a hand and just limp and trap you,since it's doubtful you have a hand every time. Remember-any animal is most dangerous when it's backed into a corner.

I'm trying to become more aggressive around the bubble with +ev and what I would like to know is when we are "pushing" a high number of hands are our "shoves" literally all-ins or do you raise a high number bb?

RossMk2 said:

I'm trying to become more aggressive around the bubble with +ev and what I would like to know is when we are "pushing" a high number of hands are our "shoves" literally all-ins or do you raise a high number bb?

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yer thats a pretty broad question that relies on a lot of differant factors... learn some basic sng strat and then post some hands in the HA tourney section

lektrikguy said:

IF you shove on me every time eventually I'll shove back. At some point you have to think that someone will pick up a hand and just limp and trap you,since it's doubtful you have a hand every time. Remember-any animal is most dangerous when it's backed into a corner.

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well, when someone limps, they no longer have a random hand, so yes, im not going to be shoving over as wide, unless i had a read that you, limp/fold to shoves.

the problem with that strat of if you keep shoving eventually ill shove back is this. youve already handed the guy shoving a load of chips, so eventually when you make the call, hes racing with your money.

lektrikguy said:

IF you shove on me every time eventually I'll shove back. At some point you have to think that someone will pick up a hand and just limp and trap you,since it's doubtful you have a hand every time. Remember-any animal is most dangerous when it's backed into a corner.

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In addition to what WiZZiM said, it's also worth mentioning that at this stage I play EVERY hand as a shove, meaning i shove against the BB with AA, KK, QQ, AK, etc. So there have been times when the BB wakes up with AJ and are like "aha!", only to find that I've got them crushed.

So the consensus is to not tighten our range but just keep pushin until we hit the money? This is in reference to pushing against the BB with an equal or smaller chip stack when there are no other smaller stacks left in the game.

against bad players, you dont necessarily want to shove with monsters like KK and AA, you can generally like min raise, or put a smallish raise in to try and extract value..

against a reg who knows your a decent player, a raise like this will scare him. so id shove my aces, hoping he calls me, then perhaps raise small into him with a less premium holding, hoping for more fold equity.

well we can shove pretty wide blind vs blind against most players, you need to keep an eye and develop reads on players, if you think the bb will call you loose, it may be no longer correct to shove as wide blind v blind.
also, stack size, and stack position comes into play, amongst other things.

but yeah, again, he would have to call you really loose to even think about not shoving anytwo blind v blind against a random player. if he calls with stuff like J9s Q10s that sort of junk, then you can just fold out the last 20% of your range, basically all the absolute junk. 82, 94 etc

if the guy is multitabling and you think hes a decent reg, then you can safely shove any two, as his calling range will be super tight. developing reads will really help you when deciding if a shove is a good one or not

I use the chat box to get them on tilt, by calling them bluffers, then when i get a good hand, raise preflop and they will call o anything. If the flop is ragged, push instantly and they will almost always call with a good high card.

Technically we should be shoving ATC and BB should not be calling without QQ+. In practice this never exactly works out because no one plays correct ICM poker in this level.