Was I wrong to chase?

pokerstars Game #31370011350: Tournament #185504492, $1.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2009/08/07 18:33:36 PT [2009/08/07 21:33:36 ET]
Table '185504492 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Same Lo Road (1480 in chips)
Seat 2: Real S.J. (990 in chips)
Seat 3: eagle57mag (1420 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 4: Longie03 (1200 in chips)
Seat 5: MOTOCASH (1470 in chips)
Seat 6: Bainzilla (2190 in chips)
Seat 7: MellerYeller (1880 in chips)
Seat 8: Ben12038755 (920 in chips)
Seat 9: PHANTOMAS013 (1950 in chips)
Bainzilla: posts small blind 10
MellerYeller: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Same Lo Road [8c 9c]
Ben12038755: calls 20
PHANTOMAS013: calls 20
Same Lo Road: calls 20
Real S.J.: folds
eagle57mag: folds
Longie03: folds
MOTOCASH: folds
Bainzilla: calls 10
MellerYeller: checks
*** FLOP *** [7h 7c 2c]
Bainzilla: checks
MellerYeller: bets 80
Ben12038755: folds
PHANTOMAS013: calls 80
Same Lo Road: calls 80
Bainzilla: folds
*** TURN *** [7h 7c 2c] [6h]
MellerYeller: bets 200
PHANTOMAS013: folds
Same Lo Road: calls 200
*** RIVER *** [7h 7c 2c 6h] [3c]
MellerYeller: bets 1580 and is all-in
Same Lo Road: calls 1180 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (400) returned to MellerYeller
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MellerYeller: shows [7d Jc] (three of a kind, Sevens)
Same Lo Road: shows [8c 9c] (a flush, Nine high)
Same Lo Road collected 3100 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3100 | Rake 0
Board [7h 7c 2c 6h 3c]
Seat 1: Same Lo Road showed [8c 9c] and won (3100) with a flush, Nine high
Seat 2: Real S.J. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: eagle57mag folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Longie03 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: MOTOCASH (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Bainzilla (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: MellerYeller (big blind) showed [7d Jc] and lost with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 8: Ben12038755 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: PHANTOMAS013 folded on the Turn


Afterwords melleryeller started berating me for chasing the flush calling me an idiot not playing the odds. I thought I was, maybe not pot odds, but I really liked my outs.

So you play based on the OUTs, not the odds.
Your odds were out the window, you got lucky

You did not have pot odds to call - you had around 15 outs w 1 card to come, so you shouldn't have called based on pot odds. You did have some implied odds - obviously in this case you maxed out the implied odds, since he shoved w trips into a flush board.

I don't like your turn call - I prefer raising the turn as a semi-bluff, and calling a shove. There's some fold equity for any hand that doesn't have a 7, which is good (i.e., if he folds, no more risk). If he shoves and I miss the 15 outs, or if he's already holding a full house and I'm drawing dead, such is life, there's another tourney starting in five minutes.

Next time someone tells you that you didn't have pot odds to call when you hit like that, tell them you knew they'd pay off the implied odds.

It may not be the right move all the time thats for sure! But it worked for you this time.

And when I make a bold or risky (or even dumb) move and I take down the pot that I shouldnt have and someone starts running their mouth how it was such a bad play I usually tell them I wouldve called with anything against such a weak scrub like him and then turn the chat off. Then kick back and watch them go off the deep end fully on tilt.



Thats just Poker.

Good Luck.

The Dark Side said:

And when I make a bold or risky (or even dumb) move and I take down the pot that I shouldnt have and someone starts running their mouth how it was such a bad play I usually tell them I wouldve called with anything against such a weak scrub like him and then turn the chat off. Then kick back and watch them go off the deep end fully on tilt.
.

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slycbnew said:

Next time someone tells you that you didn't have pot odds to call when you hit like that, tell them you knew they'd pay off the implied odds.

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lols were had

NL Holdem is more about implied odds and reverse implied odds than pot odds,But the only time i chase is when the blinds are very low or in the first hour of a re-buy tourney and never do it on paired board.

slycbnew said:

I don't like your turn call - I prefer raising the turn as a semi-bluff, and calling a shove. There's some fold equity...

Next time someone tells you that you didn't have pot odds to call when you hit like that, tell them you knew they'd pay off the implied odds.

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$1.00+$0.20 USD Hold'em No Limit -> probably not much FE there.

I actually don't hate the call. 15 outs, gonna hit about 30%, so if you're getting roughly 2:1 it's fine. At a micro sng, getting the 2:1 on your money after the river is pretty standard imo. I think that's already in there actually. Didn't $240 go in on the flop, then $200 here on the turn? Anyway, I don't mind playing draws passively against bad players, mainly because FE is lower, and implied odds are higher.

slycbnew said:

Next time someone tells you that you didn't have pot odds to call when you hit like that, tell them you knew they'd pay off the implied odds.

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Personally, I'd much rather say something like, "I knew it was coming", or something like that. No need to try and get ranting players who don't understand the numbers behind the scenes a hint in the right direction.

Yeah the pot was 520. (80 preflop + 240 on the flop + 200 on the turn = 520)

You were getting 2.6:1

46 unseen, 15 good, 31 bad = 2.07:1

You were 2.1:1 to hit, and being offered 2.6:1 on the call, so calling was perfectly fine.


For people who do %'s, you were being laid 2.6:1, so you needed 27.8% equity to continue. 4/2 rule gives you 30% equity with 15 outs.

Mase31683 said:

Yeah the pot was 520. (80 preflop + 240 on the flop + 200 on the turn = 520)

You were getting 2.6:1

46 unseen, 15 good, 31 bad = 2.07:1

You were 2.1:1 to hit, and being offered 2.6:1 on the call, so calling was perfectly fine.


For people who do %'s, you were being laid 2.6:1, so you needed 27.8% equity to continue. 4/2 rule gives you 30% equity with 15 outs.

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46/15 is a little over 3 which approximates the 30% equity from the 4/2 rule, so we didn't have pot odds to call...

And yes Mase is correct, I was actually jk about chatting to ranting players - most players at this level won't know what implied odds means...

I still don't like the turn call, raising flop or turn is my preferred line - from an odds perspective, raising the flop is the best option I think (2 cards to come)

46/15 is a little over 3, but to convert to necessary pot odds you need to divide 31 by 15.

46 are unseen

31 are bad : 15 good = 2.0667 : 1

So we need 2.0667 to make a call profitable, and we're getting a little over that. This does not mean calling is the most profitable play. Semi-bluffing very well could be more correct, but folding is definitely wrong (strictly in terms of pot odds).

Since he simply called from the big blind, I'd probably assume he had either 7X or a small pair, given his subsequent actions. However, he could easily have also had a pair of clubs, in which case his flush draw was going to make yours a loser anyway. Once he went all in I would have been fearful of a boat or a bigger flush.

However, you shouldn't feel bad about winning the hand. Frankly, he had no reason to push so hard. If he thought his trips were good, why didn't he make a value bet. No, he decided to try and get someone else to call his all in without considering that five players were in on the flop and could easily have had a flush draw, a medium pair, or perhaps the other 7. He clearly wanted someone with two pair to call him. Instead he doubled you up and took it out on you since he wouldn't have made the call after his turn bet (or so he says).

Mase31683 said:

46/15 is a little over 3, but to convert to necessary pot odds you need to divide 31 by 15.

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You're right, duh.

Woh didn't expect such feedback, Appreciate all the info tho guys!

I Would have called in that spot...u are most likely drawing to the win and i wouldnt put anyone on flopping a fullhouse right there

Considering that you were drawing to a non-nut flush, you got pretty lucky here that you both made your flush and it was good enough.

So, yeah, it was a bit of a donk play. Most of us do stuff like this every so often. It's part of mixing up your game.

When the other guy goes off on me, I just agree with him.

doops said:

Considering that you were drawing to a non-nut flush, you got pretty lucky here that you both made your flush and it was good enough.

So, yeah, it was a bit of a donk play. Most of us do stuff like this every so often. It's part of mixing up your game.

When the other guy goes off on me, I just agree with him.

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Villain missed the flush, he had trips.

Mase's analysis above shows this wasn't a donk play.

80 on the turn and then 200 on the river with 15 outs,good call .

i definaty would have called ,but i would not have called a all in on the turn.

Good calls and nice win

Lazmansa

kidkvno1 said:

So you play based on the OUTs, not the odds.
Your odds were out the window, you got lucky

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^^^^ I take that back
Ok so it is hard to read over the hand, i got lost in it.
And only just seeing the two hands you could of made.
You were right to call, seeing how you had two draws A str8, flush draws.

Mase31683 said:

Yeah the pot was 520. (80 preflop + 240 on the flop + 200 on the turn = 520)

You were getting 2.6:1

46 unseen, 15 good, 31 bad = 2.07:1

You were 2.1:1 to hit, and being offered 2.6:1 on the call, so calling was perfectly fine.


For people who do %'s, you were being laid 2.6:1, so you needed 27.8% equity to continue. 4/2 rule gives you 30% equity with 15 outs.

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^^^+1

Lazmansa said:

80 on the turn and then 200 on the river with 15 outs,good call .

i definaty would have called ,but i would not have called a all in on the turn.

Good calls and nice win

Lazmansa

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^^^ i would of called, but i would not call the all-in, well un less i had a good size stack, then yes.