Did I play this wrong?

Michael Paler

Michael Paler

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O.K., blinds are at 20/40. UTG + 3 limps, folded around to big blind, who limps. Small blind calls 20.

I have Kd-10d in the Big Blind. Normally I would raise 3x after these limps, but I already know everyone will simply call (they have all night if the blinds raise, but not the button, oddly enough). Plus, It's K-10, not a really great hand to act 2nd on after the flop, even suited. Lots of people think A-rag suited is a good limp hand, I could get a flush and get crushed. So, I just check. Pot stands at 160.

Flop comes 9d10s8d. Very coordinated flop. I check. I'm only worried about a suited ace-rag and if someone has that, they will bet. Then I will either call my top pair/flush draw or fold. It gets checked around. Hmmm....Next card off is the 3c. It's checked to me again. I figure, I got top pair, 2nd best kicker, 2nd nut flush, it's been checked around, so I bet out 106 (2/3).

The guy after me folds, the button raises to 880 (yes, into a $262 pot). Small blind folds. It's back to me.

I'm thinking A-10, but no way - If I'm on the button w A-10, I got one limper, I'm raising, right? Who wouldn't? So, no, he cannot have A-10. Then I think maybe QJ? KQ? slow playing a set/st8? Well, I just could not figure out a hand this guy could have that would not be good for a raise on the button preflop with one limper. So, I put him on something like Ace-rag suited (still, I'd raise that preflop in this situation as well!), maybe a draw of some kind. Plus, the big bet really says a very weak top pair or a bluff. I'm far deeper than him, so I 4-bet him all in for another 100. Bad pot odds I know, but I'm going to have to see that Ace rag of diamonds and a river diamond. I'm just not buying it.

What does he have? As-10s! Thinking I've just been had, I prepare to have to chip back up some, when the river brings a K! Whew!

Guy chews me out. Calls me a stupid donkey, rags on and on for the 2 minutes he has left to chat. This is the way I look at it:
Mistake #1: Limping the button w A-10 suited after one limper UTG.
Mistake #2: Not putting out a flop bet with top pair/top kicker (of 1/2-2/3 pot, like I did on the turn) after it's checked around to you on the flop, flush draw or not.
Mistake #3: 3-betting into a 2 card flush/3 card straight with one card to come without any of it after a bet on the turn by a guy who could have had J-7, from the big blind. Or the flush draw, which I did have.

I don't know, did I play this wrong? I would have raised preflop, but when they just call after limping you have no idea where you are anyway. I clearly am playing with some weak players, so maybe I should have known he could limp the button w A-10 suited? I hate A-10 suited, but really! Despite that, I would have raised the button with that, those raises were being respected.

What do you think of this hand?
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

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It's a mistake to assume that they are thinking similiarly to how you are thinking. You need to try to think about how they are thinking (or even 'if' they are thinking... nevermind if they're thinking about how you're thinking... or if they're thinking about how you're thinking that they are thinking). Alot of the time they just aren't thinking period.
 
steveiam

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It's a mistake to assume that they are thinking similiarly to how you are thinking. You need to try to think about how they are thinking (or even 'if' they are thinking... nevermind if they're thinking about how you're thinking... or if they're thinking about how you're thinking that they are thinking). Alot of the time they just aren't thinking period.

To early in the morning for me ....lol
 
Michael Paler

Michael Paler

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Good Point!

It's a mistake to assume that they are thinking similiarly to how you are thinking. You need to try to think about how they are thinking (or even 'if' they are thinking... nevermind if they're thinking about how you're thinking... or if they're thinking about how you're thinking that they are thinking). Alot of the time they just aren't thinking period.

I guess continuing to learn and develop, as I am trying to, has lead me into analyzing some situations to death. But it is improving my game, so I think I'm on the right track.....

But you are correct. I watched Antonio Esfandiari make a similar mistake this year at the Doyle Brunson 5 diamond final table! Ameture guy got top pair on the turn (an ace) and puked half his stack...Antonio made the mistake of not realizing this guy was not thinking like him (who turns top pair and makes such an obvious move?), so he 3-bet the guy all in. Antonio looked like he could barf when he realized he was drawing almost dead to a 2-outer with one card to come and doubled up the guy. Worse, Tony Dunst used this as an example of his "Raw Deal".

Clearly, this guy was thinking something, a trap I suppose. Poorly executed, but a trap nonetheless.
 
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