"I Play the Board" Etiquette Question

B

Blue_Fossil

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Total posts
383
Awards
1
Chips
12
Since I don't play live often, I had not encountered this before and was unsure what to do. This was in a MTT that basically turned into a STT because we had only 10 players.

I got into a multi-way pot with :jc4: :10c4: from the button. I don't recall the exact flop-turn-river cards nor the exact betting sequence. But I stayed with the hand and went from open-ended on the fop; to open-ended, with a flush draw and a straight flush draw on the turn.

Following the turn, we were down to two players and a sizable pot. The river card gave me a flush (not the nuts). The other remaining player said: "I play the board". Again, I don't recall exactly what was on the board, only that I knew I had the board beat. Instead of checking, I bet my hand and the other guy folded.

Was I a d*ck there, or was it perfectly okay to bet?
 
C

cotta777

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Total posts
868
Chips
0
Since I don't play live often, I had not encountered this before and was unsure what to do. This was in a MTT that basically turned into a STT because we had only 10 players.

I got into a multi-way pot with :jc4: :10c4: from the button. I don't recall the exact flop-turn-river cards nor the exact betting sequence. But I stayed with the hand and went from open-ended on the fop; to open-ended, with a flush draw and a straight flush draw on the turn.

Following the turn, we were down to two players and a sizable pot. The river card gave me a flush (not the nuts). The other remaining player said: "I play the board". Again, I don't recall exactly what was on the board, only that I knew I had the board beat. Instead of checking, I bet my hand and the other guy folded.

Was I a d*ck there, or was it perfectly okay to bet?


He said to you 'I play the board'' or was he refering that you play the board?

I dont think you need to bet the river since if he has any value hands he is betting the river in most case.
And he is also folding alot of hands he is checking back on the river.

Its player dependant if he was an aggro donk a check might of got value at the river.
at the same time if he was a risk taker and a bad player he might pay you off on the river.

I think its more important for you to be able to assess on the river which play is making you the most money most of the time, based on how villain plays each part of his range
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
He spoke while you were still to act. You're entitled to use what he said in deciding on your action. However, you have to accept the risk that he lied and has you beat.

As to whether his declaration out of turn is binding and/or improper, I don't play enough live to remember. It's incumbent on anyone who does play live, regularly to know the rules that apply, especially any house rules that aren't standard. Since you're not a reg, I wouldn't really expect you to know, but you could certainly have asked for a ruling before acting.
 
Jackdaclown

Jackdaclown

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Total posts
77
Chips
0
I don't believe most anything that comes typed into the screen. Some people are known to have something to say cause it is normal. But if a person is just typing in at a random spot when they have not been typing before, more and likely he was just trying to get you to give him a chance at half the pot there. Even at that, he may have been talking with you or someone right before this spot and still would of typed this into the screen. There are no real friends at the tables, cause they all want your money, so I do believe a bet there is proper and may the best player (or hand) win.
 
B

Blue_Fossil

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Total posts
383
Awards
1
Chips
12
He didn't speak out of turn. He was first to act on the River.

My instinct was similar to what Jackdaclown said. I ignore chat online, so I more or less ignored what he said live and played the hand like I would have had he just said "check".
 
Jackdaclown

Jackdaclown

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Total posts
77
Chips
0
Small correction I need to make. This was live and I said typing into screen. I guess really I can't speak on this beings for some reason I missed that first point. But I still believe in live tourneys this is almost the same as online but you are able to see the players. I apologize for not paying attention and if my answer doesn't belong.
 
curtinsea

curtinsea

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Total posts
495
Awards
1
Chips
2
He didn't speak out of turn. He was first to act on the River.

If he said "I play the board" while a player was yet to act, then yes he spoke out of turn. He shouldn't have revealed his hand until showdown.

As for betting, you are put in a situation where your opponent is not likely to call a bet with a hand that you beat, so betting is not the correct play. Since you aren't going to get value from lesser hands, the smart play is checking behind, IMHO
 
B

Blue_Fossil

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Total posts
383
Awards
1
Chips
12
If he said "I play the board" while a player was yet to act, then yes he spoke out of turn. He shouldn't have revealed his hand until showdown.

As for betting, you are put in a situation where your opponent is not likely to call a bet with a hand that you beat, so betting is not the correct play. Since you aren't going to get value from lesser hands, the smart play is checking behind, IMHO

Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way. I had not acted yet, so his declaration of playing the board does sound like him speaking out of turn. One of the reasons I bet - even though I was pretty sure I was going to win - was to avoid showing my hand if he folded (which he did). Most players probably figured I was on a draw that connected on the river, but no sense in giving away info unnecessarily.
 
hobonc

hobonc

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 28, 2010
Total posts
854
Chips
0
you are put in a situation where your opponent is not likely to call a bet with a hand that you beat,

Thank you!

The amount gained by min bets that are flatted (as opposed to folded to) is usually smaller than the amount you can expect to lose by hands that have you beat or are bluffed off of.

On second thought, if he is committed to playing the board and I know I have it beat I would probably put a bet out there with irresistible pot odds. He can't win. You can't lose.
 
Last edited:
H

houtlijm

Enthusiast
Platinum Level
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Total posts
74
Chips
0
it was smart to bet there. with his storie he tells you he actually has nothing. some guys tell that before showdown. nevermind
 
el_magiciann

el_magiciann

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
1,971
Chips
0
The bet is right I think, maybe he wanted to make you think of checking the river that's because he wanted a showdown to see what you got, then the bet is correct and your opponent don't even know what you got and you win the money so, nice job. :)
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
The bet is right I think, maybe he wanted to make you think of checking the river that's because he wanted a showdown to see what you got, then the bet is correct and your opponent don't even know what you got and you win the money so, nice job. :)
But what if he wanted to encourage you to bet for thinner value and/or to bluff your missed draws and other hands that don't beat the board?

Also, if JT is in the range he'd probably put me on anyway, there's little or no harm if he sees it. Even if it's not, it's only one hand, and the likelihood his seeing it will come back to bite me is probably low. Not only does an appropriate situation have to come up, but he has to change his play from what he'd normally do to a better line because of what he saw on this hand.
 
itsmebobd

itsmebobd

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Total posts
89
Chips
0
He spoke while you were still to act. You're entitled to use what he said in deciding on your action. However, you have to accept the risk that he lied and has you beat.

As to whether his declaration out of turn is binding and/or improper, I don't play enough live to remember. It's incumbent on anyone who does play live, regularly to know the rules that apply, especially any house rules that aren't standard. Since you're not a reg, I wouldn't really expect you to know, but you could certainly have asked for a ruling before acting.
He can basically tell him he has ANYTHING he wants, as long as they are heads up at the river and there are no other players in the hand and his comments could affect the action. Also, if there are other players in the hand and it's still his turn, I believe its still legal to tell what he has as long as he isnt telling the truth oddly enough...
 
itsmebobd

itsmebobd

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Total posts
89
Chips
0
Since I don't play live often, I had not encountered this before and was unsure what to do. This was in a MTT that basically turned into a STT because we had only 10 players.

I got into a multi-way pot with :jc4: :10c4: from the button. I don't recall the exact flop-turn-river cards nor the exact betting sequence. But I stayed with the hand and went from open-ended on the fop; to open-ended, with a flush draw and a straight flush draw on the turn.

Following the turn, we were down to two players and a sizable pot. The river card gave me a flush (not the nuts). The other remaining player said: "I play the board". Again, I don't recall exactly what was on the board, only that I knew I had the board beat. Instead of checking, I bet my hand and the other guy folded.

Was I a d*ck there, or was it perfectly okay to bet?
Bet your hand, and remember at the poker table there are no friends, only people who you need to be taking their chips. I got into it with my friend amanda when we used to play live together at home games, because she would be pissed when I bluffed her or took her money, and I told her "Sweetie when i'm at the poker table I believe I can win every single chip at that table, and I will try, so just dont get into my way, there is no friends at the poker table so dont get mad"
 
Grossberger

Grossberger

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
May 12, 2009
Total posts
2,066
Chips
0
If he said "I play the board" while a player was yet to act, then yes he spoke out of turn. He shouldn't have revealed his hand until showdown.

As for betting, you are put in a situation where your opponent is not likely to call a bet with a hand that you beat, so betting is not the correct play. Since you aren't going to get value from lesser hands, the smart play is checking behind, IMHO

I don't think checking behind is ever the right play. He has given you free information that you can use. I want to bet so my hand does not have to be shown and given other players free information. Let's look at it a couple other ways.

Situation 1.
Board runs out A Q 9 A 7 and you were in the BB with say 56 and SB says "I play the board" are you gonna check to split the pot? If he truly is playing the board why check for a chop make a bet that gets him to fold and take the whole pot down.

Situation 2
I have seen this happen 3-4 times. If a player exposes his cards after checking before you have bet and you see he either has you beat but is a weak hand like bottom pair or you have the same hand, are you gonna check and let him take it down or bet and take it down? It's difficult for someone to call when their hand is known and you just bet into them.

Bottom line if a players basically tells me their hand I'm betting something.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
Situation 1.
Board runs out A Q 9 A 7 and you were in the BB with say 56 and SB says "I play the board" are you gonna check to split the pot? If he truly is playing the board why check for a chop make a bet that gets him to fold and take the whole pot down.
But what about the other possibility, where he's not playing the board? Why bet and open up the possibility of losing additional chips with your non-nut hand?

I'm not saying checking is better, only pointing out that your stated reasoning doesn't include the cases where he lied, either intentionally or not.
 
curtinsea

curtinsea

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Total posts
495
Awards
1
Chips
2
But what about the other possibility, where he's not playing the board? Why bet and open up the possibility of losing additional chips with your non-nut hand?

I'm not saying checking is better, only pointing out that your stated reasoning doesn't include the cases where he lied, either intentionally or not.

Actually, this is precisely why checking is the play in this situation. If he is lying, and you bet, he has extracted value from you. If he is telling the truth and you bet, he folds always. He might pay off a small value bet, but you would have to have a read of some kind to expect that.

I think some are over valuing not having to show their hand. If you bet and he folds, he knows you beat the board, so your hand is face up anyway.
 
K

KRL506

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2
Chips
0
I would not view this as poor etiquette on your behalf..

I say it is okay to bet in that situation, and- although only semi-confident- do not believe there are any rules which prohibit players from disclosing their hand strength during heads-up play. As far as etiquette is concerned: you are not a "dick" for considering, or not considering, the information the other player voluntarily provided. I do, however, consider the opponent quite-a-dick for attempting to provide specifics prior to showdown.

I don't follow "the book" very strictly but I agree with this philosophy regarding acting on this play:

Actually, this is precisely why checking is the play in this situation. If he is lying, and you bet, he has extracted value from you. If he is telling the truth and you bet, he folds always. He might pay off a small value bet, but you would have to have a read of some kind to expect that.

I think some are over valuing not having to show their hand. If you bet and he folds, he knows you beat the board, so your hand is face up anyway.
 
Mr Sandbag

Mr Sandbag

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Total posts
2,635
Chips
0
If it was bad etiquette to bet every time a heads up opponent said he was weak on the river, the game would be really stupid. Every time the pot is heads up, the OOP player could just declare his weakness to get to a cheap showdown.

Pretty much all I play is live poker. I rarely pay any attention to what people say during a hand unless I have noticed a tendency that gives info away.

In this case, I'd probably check if I believed him (but wouldn't make a habit of it for obvious reasons). He's not calling unless there is a made straight on board. But if someone had said "I just have Ace high" and I had a good hand, I'm probably betting. Why wouldn't you? What do you have to lose unless the guy has a history of lying? You know what he has, and there's a chance he won't believe your bet after revealing his hand and will pay off a small bet.
 
wagon596

wagon596

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Total posts
3,767
Awards
13
Chips
11
Here's something that happened to me ,,MTT,, me and another player ,,I'm new at live tournaments. Anyway I checked out of turn and of course he bets and I folded.

After the tournament I asked the director if this happens can I raise his bet, he said no, even tho I acted out of turn, my verbal commitment stood.
 
S

Sunshine21

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Total posts
6
Chips
0
Playing live you will run into alot more ettiquette situations than you would playing online... online people are basically Aholes aside from a few... I started out playing live and I know that poker is a sport with friendly interactions most of the time... If someone is playin the board and announces the fact that they are playing the board I'd say go ahead and check it down flip your cards and take the pot if you have the board beat....
 
Top