I need opinions. Sit & Go situation

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klickitat

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S &G 1,000 chip stack 9 players

4 hands into tourney. I have 990 chips. I am out of position with AK off. Fold in front of me. I 4x bet. I get called with an all in by the short stack of 410. I am getting ready to call when the cutoff calls. everyone folds up to me.

I looked at the short stack and realized that he is fishy. I figure the caller is either fishy or has a big hand. I do not want to be against AA or KK and I do not want to give up over 40% of my stack or even risk it against two wild players so I fold. Also I hoping the caller put out the short stack.

Short stack rolls over A8 and Caller rolls over the same hand I had AK off. Caller wins and puts out the short stack.

Was I right to fold? Do I figure in letting others battle it out to knock players off in small tournaments or S & G's?
 
henriquemaduro

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I dont like to play many all ins even against worse hands, each hand add reduce ur chances to win.
 
TheKAAHK

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Don't open so large to begin with. If you are not comfortable with/prepared to call a shove/re-shove, you should not be opening to (from what I gather to be) over 1/3 of your stack. 2 to 2.5x bb would be better and leave you room to fold if you don't want to play for stacks for some reason.

As played, call.
 
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klickitat

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My 4x bet was 160 and was preparing to call the 410 all in bet by the short stack. I hesitated and folded when 2 players after him called his all in.

Does that help clarify it?
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

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That does help. But I still say that 4x is too much. That's still around 17% of your stack oop. It would be a much easier decision on how to proceed with less in the pot from you in that sort of spot.
And why would you want other players to gain those valuable chips that will be used against you? In a sng you should be playing for first or second. I'm more than happy to flip against a shorty and another full stack with AK against randoms in a sng, especially when I already invested that much preflop.

Just wondering though, what would you have done after opening 4x, being just flat called twice, and seeing a flop that's J high rainbow?
 
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klickitat

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Thanks for the input. It does help and give me something to think about.


Just wondering though, what would you have done after opening 4x, being just flat called twice, and seeing a flop that's J high rainbow?

To answer this, I would have cbet half pot as I would have been first to act.
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

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Then fold to a raise?

Not trying to be nitpicky, I'm just sayin that you have to have a plan for your actions and possible reactions. Maybe a cbet would take it down. Maybe you get one call and you whiff the turn. Now you are either committed to jamming A high, or folding and leaving yourself short.
 
detroitjunkie

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An alternative way to look at it...since its so early in the SNG why not just shove after the other AK just called. Maybe you get him out of the hand and face the fish alone...obviously you have the fish beat 90% of the time. this is the move I would play but I am always going for 1st or 2nd like above comment said.

however, I always 3x every raise I make no matter what my cards are, this way I feel like I can bail if needed, or shove bigger when necessary

since cutoff just called you have to assume he doesnt have AA or KK, especially KK since I feel he would shove to isolate and get you out with your ace

also is the other AK the person who took the original shovers other 600 chips? I am thinking not

so this only helps the claim that a shove by you may be a better move
 
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raise to like 100 here, especially with your stack size where you can easily be pot committed. you can get away with 4x at like 10/20 but anything past that is a min-raise or a 2.5x at the most.

As played, the only range that really should worry you is the one that smooth calls, but since this level is filled with fish, the AK should be a pretty easy jam, or if you wanted to generate some possible fold equity vs the smooth calling player, then just flat call and jam any flop.
 
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WiZZiM

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I missed that 2 players called him after the short stack jammed all in. Yeah you can just let this spot go, but you could have saved 60 chips here by making a smaller raise size. (doesnt seem like much but it really adds up over time!)
 
blackdevil724

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If you open with 4 bb you need to go all in...you represented strenght, and by doing that you may make ak to fold, and win complete pot!!
 
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S &G 1,000 chip stack 9 players

4 hands into tourney. I have 990 chips. I am out of position with AK off. Fold in front of me. I 4x bet. I get called with an all in by the short stack of 410. I am getting ready to call when the cutoff calls. everyone folds up to me.

I looked at the short stack and realized that he is fishy. I figure the caller is either fishy or has a big hand. I do not want to be against AA or KK and I do not want to give up over 40% of my stack or even risk it against two wild players so I fold. Also I hoping the caller put out the short stack.

Short stack rolls over A8 and Caller rolls over the same hand I had AK off. Caller wins and puts out the short stack.

Was I right to fold? Do I figure in letting others battle it out to knock players off in small tournaments or S & G's?

In this situation you simple must go all in
 
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kapobar

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U bet half of stack and than fold?u musted go alin
 
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not good idea .. going all in. before flop..
AK is not strong hand it is still underdog against pocket duces
 
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fabioveigaf

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I think vc at least had to have paid , or opponents , sent the all-in short stack and yours too ? if sent his all-in yet but was thinkable to pay , so that there is one story , tournament start , will soon fall risk at the beginning
 
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freestocks

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To me both are correct. All in or fold against 2 players.

You were right to fold, too early in tournament.
 
fortopyan

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in this hand all in it's normal course
 
naruto_miu

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When you 4x Raise, what's your Intention? It's to call the SS, correct or not? If that's all your Intention was, and nothing else. Than 4x raising Isn't a good Idea.

You see, when you 4x Raise your Intention should be simple to let others know, that your ready to get all stacks "In the middle".

AK is a strong enough hand to GII with vs SS and It's strong enough to ISO with. Think like this. If the flatter had a real hand that he wanted to GII with, what would be the best way for him to GII with? If you think by him flatting In a micro "Trying to get tricky" was their thought process, than you're In-correct. I mean, you stated that the game had just started. That should be an Indication that the flatter wasn't really trying to get fancy but wanted to see a cheap flop/thus you could've GII with AK (Since the flatter Is an unknown player), you must assume from the little Info that you gathered thus far that AK Is good enough to GII with
 
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klickitat

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I really appreciate all the feedback. It really helps to think things through.
 
naruto_miu

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If you're the type that's uncomfortable "Getting stacks In the middle" and playing more aggressive, best suggestion, I can think of Is playing In "Dons/50/50". If now you want to learn to become more aggressive on the other hand, hypers would be my best bet for you.

Unless someone else has a better suggestion
 
blackdevil724

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To pay?? No way, all in is only solution...
 
MediaBLITZ

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I hope you are seeing that the real question is not what to do after the others act but what you do from step one. Your action leading up to any action question of any hand is usually heavily influenced by what you did before the quandry raises its ugly head.

I will ask the same question about your initial action - WHY? What was your thinking on that heavy bet? Since you were adverse to continuing action to get involved in an all-in flip (not saying that was right or wrong), I am guessing your heavy bet with AKo was motivated by fear. You wanted to take it down right there and not go to a flop that you would probably miss anyway. You were hoping everyone would go away so you could rake the small pot without a confrontation. If that is the case - STOP DOING THAT. #1 - it is a serious betting tell. And it only usually takes you doing it once to figure out that your heavy PF bets are not as much about strength as they are fear. That my friend is very exploitable and your opponent won't even need a hand to do so.
Like others said - bet that 2 1/2 to 3 times the blind. Let it go to the flop. Even if you miss with a dry flop, they probably missed too with their A high, K high hand and you may very well still be ahead. Learn to play that flop.
That's poker ;)
 
detroitjunkie

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I agree with many of the points here and strongly disagree with others.

FIRST AK is NOT too weak to go AI with in a tournament, especially early...against a SS you are mostly going to be favored or flipping, which is ok

To fold because it is too early in a tournament is foolish and should never enter the equation...if this is your mindset then quit playing altogether

Folding here does show fear, and will make the smarter players chew you up in the end, not good. Bet less PF is better if you are just going to fold to aggression.

You do need to think about it from the get...what was your motivation? Whenever there is a short stack at the table, you must ALWAYS be prepared for that stack to shove at any time. If you are going to 4x you must be prepared to call that short stacks shove, if you will not do this then you should just fold preflop, or limp, which is stupid anyways. Remember the short stacks range will be VERY WIDE, and your AK has him beat 90% of the time or more, and with the other player not raising you can assume he is not that strong either.
 
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delox7

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Man, if you raised 4bb you should be prepared to a call or raise because you already compromise a part of your stack. I think that I would call and see the flop because AK is a great hand.
 
wilpinsi

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play most of my games are in sit & go, of 1,50- 3,50 turbo values,
with 10 players
I'm used to this kind of game and not can adapt to others as much as I'm trying.
 
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