Did I Make the Correct Decision?

Xcoder · Feb 17, 2017

Was my decision correct or should I have called considering my chip stack and position? It was a close call for me but in the end I unfortunately decided to fold.

I posted a Boom link for anyone who would prefer to watch the hand instead of reading it
https://www.boomplayer.com/22749273_7DC8B0AC5B

Here's what happened;
pokerstars Hand #166260968291: Tournament #1826410999, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2017/02/15 15:39:04 ET
Table '1826410999 7' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: XcoderTY (10159 in chips)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (9885 in chips)
Seat 4: josemir83 (4020 in chips)
Seat 5: Winde3 (3434 in chips)
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 (4597 in chips)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok (5761 in chips)
Seat 8: AndreasEM (6466 in chips)
Seat 9: Senorita_B (4530 in chips)
XcoderTY: posts the ante 50
Iruan I win: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts the ante 50
Winde3: posts the ante 50
Laphroaig22: posts the ante 50
ThijsBlok: posts the ante 50
AndreasEM: posts the ante 50
Senorita_B: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts small blind 200
Winde3: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XcoderTY [9d 9c]
Laphroaig22: folds
ThijsBlok: raises 400 to 800
AndreasEM: folds
Senorita_B: raises 3680 to 4480 and is all-in
XcoderTY: folds
Iruan I win: folds
josemir83: folds
Winde3: folds
ThijsBlok: calls 3680
*** FLOP *** [Ad Jd 2d]
*** TURN *** [Ad Jd 2d] 3♣
*** RIVER *** [Ad Jd 2d 3c] 5♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ThijsBlok: shows [6s 6d] (a pair of Sixes)
Senorita_B: shows [7h 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
Senorita_B collected 9960 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9960 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Jd 2d 3c 5c]
Seat 1: XcoderTY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: josemir83 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Winde3 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok showed [6s 6d] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 8: AndreasEM folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Senorita_B showed [7h 7c] and won (9960) with a pair of Sevens

Gerb · Feb 17, 2017

Good fold. What is his shoving range likely? You're only ever ahead of 55-77, you're either flipping or way behind for most of his range, no need to gamble.

shinedown.45 · Feb 17, 2017

I would have to agree about the fold, I watched the boom player and folded in my head before you did.
You made the right move by folding, you have an EP min-raiser, then a 3-bet all-in, so folding was your only option.

Don't be results oriented.

ivanbbb · Feb 17, 2017

Xcoder said:
Was my decision correct or should I have called considering my chip stack and position? It was a close call for me but in the end I unfortunately decided to fold.

I posted a Boom link for anyone who would prefer to watch the hand instead of reading it
https://www.boomplayer.com/22749273_7DC8B0AC5B

Here's what happened;
PokerStars Hand #166260968291: Tournament #1826410999, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2017/02/15 15:39:04 ET
Table '1826410999 7' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: XcoderTY (10159 in chips)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (9885 in chips)
Seat 4: josemir83 (4020 in chips)
Seat 5: Winde3 (3434 in chips)
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 (4597 in chips)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok (5761 in chips)
Seat 8: AndreasEM (6466 in chips)
Seat 9: Senorita_B (4530 in chips)
XcoderTY: posts the ante 50
Iruan I win: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts the ante 50
Winde3: posts the ante 50
Laphroaig22: posts the ante 50
ThijsBlok: posts the ante 50
AndreasEM: posts the ante 50
Senorita_B: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts small blind 200
Winde3: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XcoderTY [9d 9c]
Laphroaig22: folds
ThijsBlok: raises 400 to 800
AndreasEM: folds
Senorita_B: raises 3680 to 4480 and is all-in
XcoderTY: folds
Iruan I win: folds
josemir83: folds
Winde3: folds
ThijsBlok: calls 3680
*** FLOP *** [Ad Jd 2d]
*** TURN *** [Ad Jd 2d] 3♣
*** RIVER *** [Ad Jd 2d 3c] 5♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ThijsBlok: shows [6s 6d] (a pair of Sixes)
Senorita_B: shows [7h 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
Senorita_B collected 9960 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9960 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Jd 2d 3c 5c]
Seat 1: XcoderTY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: josemir83 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Winde3 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok showed [6s 6d] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 8: AndreasEM folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Senorita_B showed [7h 7c] and won (9960) with a pair of Sevens

at optimum game is 99 fold, but there is no optimal play! Even the smell is not present! So I would play!

shinedown.45 · Feb 17, 2017

ivanbbb said:
at optimum game is 99 fold, but there is no optimal play! Even the smell is not present! So I would play!

Sorry Ivan, but calling in this spot is a losing call most of the time, folding was the right option.
If you can't find a reason to fold 99 when there's a min raise and 3 bet all-in before you, then you have to work on your game.

ivanbbb · Feb 17, 2017

shinedown.45 said:
Sorry Ivan, but calling in this spot is a losing call most of the time, folding was the right option.
If you can't find a reason to fold 99 when there's a min raise and 3 bet all-in before you, then you have to work on your game.

he did fold the best hand, because the bad reading opponents. that poker is important to be a better opponent, this is a skill! in optimal game hand is 99 fold! but there is no optimal play! so here it is necessary to exploit the game of the enemy! According to your need to have a hand AK + KK to win? What is the optimal game? you do know?
like you, I'd be happy to have on your desk, good luck!

PeteyPablo3 · Feb 20, 2017

pair 99 good times at times.but against all-in to go is not desirable .but risk is necessary sometimes

shinedown.45 · Feb 20, 2017

PeteyPablo3 said:
pair 99 good times at times.but against all-in to go is not desirable .but risk is necessary sometimes

When only facing 1 opponent then 99 is worth the risk but 99 doesn't fair well against multiple opponents.
On multiple occasions I have called an all-in with med pairs against one opponent and will continue to do so and have won more times than lost, but in the past, I have lost most when against multiple players in a similar situation.

ph_il · Feb 21, 2017

Unless blok is a super nit min raising in EP with only QQ+, I'm 4bet jamming to isolate with 3better since their jam range is likely wide with 11 BBs that 99 is probably ahead of.

I still have fold equity over blok and they would have to wake up with a really strong hand to make a call facing a 3 and 4 bet jam. Also, since they are short stacked, there are a number of hands they can call with that 99 is way ahead or a slight favorite against. Ideally, I'd want a fold here and play HU.

cranberry · Feb 21, 2017

I think you did the right thing. If the opponent was A with any card, you are already losing. People can not predict the future. By myself I say, on the bubble, I folded a pair of K-K, and that's okay.

akmost · Feb 21, 2017

Yeap it's a fold for me as well. they already have shown aggression preflop and you have three more players behind you. Maybe I would have called there , but still it would be a marginal call for the way I play, if I were the last player to act. But still why to risk your tournament life there? Good fold for me man.

Masi2197 · Feb 21, 2017

Your decision was correct, push with your hand was great, just as I would in those cases

BuffSabres09 · Feb 22, 2017

Good fold. Both guys went nuts with hands they shouldn't have. Raising 10x BB all-in when there was a min raise behind should have only enticed a call maybe a 3 bet to 12-1500, but I'd never shove in that spot with any middle pair. Probably a good thing tho because I think regardless of the flop 7-7 would have pushed post flop, so you saved yourself a lot of cash that hand.

subsinind · Feb 22, 2017

If you can't fold, then you will not blame yourself if you had lost but on other donks who called you with lesser pair and still won. (though your case results are different)

Aim: to win the tournament
Plan: fuc, i don't care what hands i folded
Winning Plan: how to make the donks tilt more, not the other way around

Good Fold, imo.

Just_a_Tom · Feb 22, 2017

Xcoder said:
Was my decision correct or should I have called considering my chip stack and position? It was a close call for me but in the end I unfortunately decided to fold.

I posted a Boom link for anyone who would prefer to watch the hand instead of reading it
https://www.boomplayer.com/22749273_7DC8B0AC5B

Here's what happened;
PokerStars Hand #166260968291: Tournament #1826410999, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2017/02/15 15:39:04 ET
Table '1826410999 7' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: XcoderTY (10159 in chips)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (9885 in chips)
Seat 4: josemir83 (4020 in chips)
Seat 5: Winde3 (3434 in chips)
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 (4597 in chips)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok (5761 in chips)
Seat 8: AndreasEM (6466 in chips)
Seat 9: Senorita_B (4530 in chips)
XcoderTY: posts the ante 50
Iruan I win: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts the ante 50
Winde3: posts the ante 50
Laphroaig22: posts the ante 50
ThijsBlok: posts the ante 50
AndreasEM: posts the ante 50
Senorita_B: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts small blind 200
Winde3: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XcoderTY [9d 9c]
Laphroaig22: folds
ThijsBlok: raises 400 to 800
AndreasEM: folds
Senorita_B: raises 3680 to 4480 and is all-in
XcoderTY: folds
Iruan I win: folds
josemir83: folds
Winde3: folds
ThijsBlok: calls 3680
*** FLOP *** [Ad Jd 2d]
*** TURN *** [Ad Jd 2d] 3♣
*** RIVER *** [Ad Jd 2d 3c] 5♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ThijsBlok: shows [6s 6d] (a pair of Sixes)
Senorita_B: shows [7h 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
Senorita_B collected 9960 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9960 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Jd 2d 3c 5c]
Seat 1: XcoderTY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: josemir83 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Winde3 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok showed [6s 6d] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 8: AndreasEM folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Senorita_B showed [7h 7c] and won (9960) with a pair of Sevens

My answer to you would be " it depends" I wasn't there throughout the tournament to make observations of how your opponents play, but you were. When I'm faced with the same decision I think of how many large raises they made earlier in the tournament, and what they had when they made those sorts of raises. At times I will make the gamble with my pair If I Believe I only have paint to be worried about instead of a larger pair, but I'm a sucker for a coin flip When I know if I lose my tournament life would not be over. It's important to remember when you have those " oh my God I should've called moments" not to beat yourself up and allow it to affect your game plan. You'll have plenty of other opportunities to get your money in at just the right time. If I made the call that you didnt, It would be considered the wrong decision by the book, even if I Won the pot. But sometimes you just gotta go with your gut. Regarding that hand earlier I believe the call would've been correct, just not as much as the fold.

ph_il · Feb 22, 2017

BuffSabres09 said:
Good fold. Both guys went nuts with hands they shouldn't have.
...How is min-raising and 3bet jamming 11 BBs 'going nuts'?

Raising 10x BB all-in when there was a min raise behind should have only enticed a call maybe a 3 bet to 12-1500, but I'd never shove in that spot with any middle pair.
...The min raise was before, not after. 3betting to ~4 BBs when you only have 11 BBs makes no sense.

Probably a good thing tho because I think regardless of the flop 7-7 would have pushed post flop, so you saved yourself a lot of cash that hand.
...Given stack sizes, I don't see how either hand sees a flop without getting it in. But lets say they do somehow see a flop with an effect 7BBs behind, neither is jamming that flop. Not if they're playing that passively preflop w/ mid-pairs and an 11 BB effect stack. That makes no sense. Play super passive/safe preflop, then jam an A/J high flop? What?

above.

ph_il · Feb 22, 2017

subsinind said:
If you can't fold, then you will not blame yourself if you had lost but on other donks who called you with lesser pair and still won. (though your case results are different)
...Or they might not blame anyone and chalk it up to variance. Losing here doesn't mean they made an error. Getting your money in good is the correct play, regardless of results. So, to lose the hand =/= it's a losing play.

Aim: to win the tournament
Plan: fuc, i don't care what hands i folded
Winning Plan: how to make the donks tilt more, not the other way around
...How do you plan on winning an MTT by folding hands? How is making bad players tilt a winning plan? They already play bad, making them tilt is just a waste of your time.

Good Fold, imo.

above.

ph_il · Feb 22, 2017

alfadog85 said:
I think you did the right thing. If the opponent was A with any card, you are already losing. People can not predict the future. By myself I say, on the bubble, I folded a pair of K-K, and that's okay.

Please tell me the details of the hand where you folded KK on the bubble.

ph_il · Feb 22, 2017

akmost said:
Yeap it's a fold for me as well. they already have shown aggression preflop and you have three more players behind you. Maybe I would have called there , but still it would be a marginal call for the way I play, if I were the last player to act. But still why to risk your tournament life there? Good fold for me man.

Calling is bad because you miss out on some fold equity you have if you 4bet jam. You want to isolate and try to play against as few players as possible.

On top of that, stacks are super shallow. If you just call and someone else jams, you're priced into call and will have to play a multi-way pot.

Anki_KB · Feb 22, 2017

good fold...especially if it is early in the tournament where many donkeys still are alive.

akmost · Feb 22, 2017

ohshootmybad said:
Calling is bad because you miss out on some fold equity you have if you 4bet jam. You want to isolate and try to play against as few players as possible.

On top of that, stacks are super shallow. If you just call and someone else jams, you're priced into call and will have to play a multi-way pot.

Yeap we both agree on that , I would have called if I was the last to act. I didn't express correct there.Thanks for the answer man , I appreciate it!

cranberry · Feb 23, 2017

ohshootmybad said:
Please tell me the details of the hand where you folded KK on the bubble.

Details can not say, it was a long time. I did not retained that hand. I folded KK, because I wanted to get to the prize zone and entered it.

subsinind · Feb 23, 2017

ohshootmybad said:
How do you plan on winning an MTT by folding hands? How is making bad players tilt a winning plan? They already play bad, making them tilt is just a waste of your time.

You should be knowing not every prenut hand 'AA' wins in the end. If you want to win a MTT, there will be a situation where you have to lay down something big at the right time.

Checkout wsop ME bubble videos on the youtube and there are lots of bubble busting out with AA,KK - they couldn't just fold it to get in the money. The point is we get twice the money good for 2 more ME in future where we can avoid the situation which we are in presently.

Patience in MTT wins along with right calls at the right time. Sometimes, going all in with AA at the full Final table risking almost all your stack may not be a good play because each position up pays a big payout.

On the other point, bad players will try to make you tilt(winning losing hands and taking a stab at your stack). But you can make them tilt (by folding a lot 60%-40% and eventually when you make nuts 95%-05%) to simply shove with nothing and that's what you should make them to do.

Dr Peeper · Mar 4, 2017

folding was the good choice. if you have the chips, you could raise. if they call, try again or shut down

psmcb · Mar 5, 2017

I think

Xcoder said:
Was my decision correct or should I have called considering my chip stack and position? It was a close call for me but in the end I unfortunately decided to fold.

I posted a Boom link for anyone who would prefer to watch the hand instead of reading it
https://www.boomplayer.com/22749273_7DC8B0AC5B

Here's what happened;
PokerStars Hand #166260968291: Tournament #1826410999, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (200/400) - 2017/02/15 15:39:04 ET
Table '1826410999 7' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: XcoderTY (10159 in chips)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (9885 in chips)
Seat 4: josemir83 (4020 in chips)
Seat 5: Winde3 (3434 in chips)
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 (4597 in chips)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok (5761 in chips)
Seat 8: AndreasEM (6466 in chips)
Seat 9: Senorita_B (4530 in chips)
XcoderTY: posts the ante 50
Iruan I win: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts the ante 50
Winde3: posts the ante 50
Laphroaig22: posts the ante 50
ThijsBlok: posts the ante 50
AndreasEM: posts the ante 50
Senorita_B: posts the ante 50
josemir83: posts small blind 200
Winde3: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XcoderTY [9d 9c]
Laphroaig22: folds
ThijsBlok: raises 400 to 800
AndreasEM: folds
Senorita_B: raises 3680 to 4480 and is all-in
XcoderTY: folds
Iruan I win: folds
josemir83: folds
Winde3: folds
ThijsBlok: calls 3680
*** FLOP *** [Ad Jd 2d]
*** TURN *** [Ad Jd 2d] 3♣
*** RIVER *** [Ad Jd 2d 3c] 5♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ThijsBlok: shows [6s 6d] (a pair of Sixes)
Senorita_B: shows [7h 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
Senorita_B collected 9960 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9960 | Rake 0
Board [Ad Jd 2d 3c 5c]
Seat 1: XcoderTY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Iruan I win (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: josemir83 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Winde3 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Laphroaig22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ThijsBlok showed [6s 6d] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 8: AndreasEM folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Senorita_B showed [7h 7c] and won (9960) with a pair of Sevens

depending on the stage of the game and how to play the enemy. But I probably would have played call since his stack is 11BB

Did I Make the Correct Decision?

Xcoder

Rock Star

Gerb

Rock Star

shinedown.45

Legend

ivanbbb

Rock Star

shinedown.45

Legend

ivanbbb

Rock Star

PeteyPablo3

Enthusiast

shinedown.45

Legend

ph_il

...

cranberry

Legend

akmost

Rising Star

Masi2197

Rock Star

BuffSabres09

Rising Star

subsinind

Rock Star

Just_a_Tom

Enthusiast

ph_il

...

ph_il

...

ph_il

...

ph_il

...

Anki_KB

Visionary

akmost

Rising Star

cranberry

Legend

subsinind

Rock Star

Dr Peeper

Enthusiast

psmcb

Enthusiast

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