Did I Make a Mistake on This Hand?

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PasoTex

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OK, I'm playing in a $150 NL hold 'em tournament at Caesars. My stack is down to 3100 at a table of 10 players. The blinds are 400-800 and the ante is 75. A player in middle position limps. He has about 10,000 chips. The table has been solid, so I put him on JT+, 98s+ and 22+. It's folded to me in the big blind. I have K9o. I knew I certainly was not going to make him fold if I pushed, but for several orbits I had no opportunity to shove as my cards were truly awful, such as 85o. A push seemed marginal, but seemed like the best choice, so I went all-in. The limper called, turned over AJo and won the pot. I think I made the right choice, but wish I knew how to determine what my chance of success was against my opponent's range.

After that game ended, I felt my biggest mistake was in letting my stack get that low without taking any chances. So a few days later when I played in the same tournament again, when I had about 10,000 chips at a full table with the blinds 500-1000 with a 100 ante, I pushed all-in from early position with 99. A guy on the button called with AQo and I lost the coin flip. I was satisfied I made the right play, though.
 
bhood1776

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In the first hand, you said if you pushed you knew he wouldn't fold so why did you push? There was no raise, so why not check then go from there? You even stated that the table was tight so you were most likely behind with best case scenario being a coin flip. If you toatally miss the flop you can fold and still have a chance, even if it is a small one, it is still a chance.

There is also a small chance to bluff the flop. If the flop was something like 2 5 8 and you push at that point he may think it hit you since you checked your bb.
 
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volpereira

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I agree with the guy above. I would only check and try to bluff the flop if it cames low.
 
Vfranks

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Had you been able to see their whole cards, would you have made the same move? If you would have made a diff play had you known his whole cards than you made a mistake.
 
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playerk7

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in the first tournament i wouldve not pushed and saw a flop as well as the second tournament, if you push preflop like that you might be scared of getting out played on the flop
 
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playerk7

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i would try to learn how to play post flop if i were you, maybe try to work your bluff game a little better by learning what situations to bluff in and what situations not to
 
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bmfbpi

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as an above poster said, why did you push if you knew he wasn't going to fold ?
 
dwolfg

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How can the table be solid and you have no opportunity to steal for several orbits? With only one limp and everyone folding in your example hand I assume the table was tight, so shoving every once in a while should have gotten you the blinds, regardless of your cards.
 
BeaverTrump

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I think it is was not good play)))) In 1 hand the opponent with a greater stack call you with very wide range and chances at you was very little.... Especially you had an opportunity to wait a strong card still a circle...
In 2 hand all-in with 99 is a big mistake especially from an early position, you should do reise 4 BB and play on flop.... It very much loose and aggressive game
 
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Check and see a flop with the limper in the 1st hand and I'd open shove if you sense any weakness at all. You're screwed either way imo with that short of a stack so I would check and bet the flop that the limper missed, which he did miss most of the time, and might fold it to you.
The second hand can go either way imo. 2500 in the pot before the cards are even delt is alot with only a 10k stack. The push is fine imo, just lost the flip. Not like you're going to raise to 3k the fold to a 3-bet when getting 2-1 with 99 and 7k behind.
 
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PasoTex

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Thanks very much for the comments. My assumption with the first hand was that even though I was probably behind the villain, I felt my hand was ahead of at least a small part of his range and I'd be nearly 50-50 if he had a pair of 88's or below. Given my tiny stack and the size of the blinds and antes, I thought I'd have sufficient equity to go all in. I'm going to learn how to use PokerStove better and see what my actual equity was against the range I estimated my opponent to have, which I think was pretty accurate. Your comments were very helpful, so I thank you for them.
 
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2nd game is fine - standard play.

1st hand: I agree with others that if you not getting a fold then check and see the flop then shove, or check/shove if you hit it. This way you have two ways of winning.

In Pokerstove you can dial in a range of hands as well as specific cards.
 
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PasoTex

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As a postscript to this thread, I ran a simulation on PokerStove assigning the estimated hand range to the villain that I estimated. It turns out that my play was +EV, as my equity in the post once we were both all-in was 3,277 chips, or more than my total stack at the time the hand began. However, I agree with some of the other posters that it would've been better for me to simply check in the big blind and see the flop before deciding whether or not to continue. Thanks again for the comments.
 
Poker Orifice

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In the first hand, you said if you pushed you knew he wouldn't fold so why did you push? There was no raise, so why not check then go from there? You even stated that the table was tight so you were most likely behind with best case scenario being a coin flip. If you toatally miss the flop you can fold and still have a chance, even if it is a small one, it is still a chance.

There is also a small chance to bluff the flop. If the flop was something like 2 5 8 and you push at that point he may think it hit you since you checked your bb.

Yah.. this^

Sitting shortstacked with 4bb's.. if SB limped in I would shove in your spot

In this hand you've described you have ~4bb's & have zero fold equity. If you for sure wanted to get it ai here, why not just check preflop & shove any flop?

(2nd hand w 10bb's is shove for sure)
 
doops

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Hindsight is easy. I like the check and shove on the flop move, but it's pretty much the same as what you did. Personally, I don't mind the shove. What I don't understand is why he limped. He had, what?, 12 BBs? I would have assumed he wanted action and that is what would have worried me. Is that why you assumed he would call your raise, or did you assume he'd call because he could?

You'd let yourself get down to an ATC shove anyway. Next time, if you can, try not to get so short-stacked that your shove lacks impact. One of the points of shoving is to make the other guy consider his situation.
 
Poker Orifice

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Hindsight is easy. I like the check and shove on the flop move, but it's pretty much the same as what you did. .

Difference being that villain might not call on flop if they have no piece of it giving you the possibility of two ways to win as opposed to just one.
 
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PasoTex

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Hindsight is easy. I like the check and shove on the flop move, but it's pretty much the same as what you did. Personally, I don't mind the shove. What I don't understand is why he limped. He had, what?, 12 BBs? I would have assumed he wanted action and that is what would have worried me. Is that why you assumed he would call your raise, or did you assume he'd call because he could?

You'd let yourself get down to an ATC shove anyway. Next time, if you can, try not to get so short-stacked that your shove lacks impact. One of the points of shoving is to make the other guy consider his situation.


Agreed. I was looking for opportunities to shove at least 2 orbits before the hand in question, but didn't have a favorable situation to get all my chips in. You and others are absolutely right about how I should never have let my stack get down so small without a fight. That is why, in the next game, I went all-in with pocket 99's while my stack was still large enough to hurt the other players still in it. I got called by a guy on the button with AQo, but I had a 55.797% of winning that hand, according to Pokerstove, so I'm satisfied I made the right play given the size of the blinds and antes. If I had won that hand, I would've been in pretty good position as the tournament progressed.
 
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