I lose more than I win, normal right?

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roreyn02

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Ive been playing a loose aggressive style recently after reading a tournament book that promotes this style of play. It talks about "utility" and how acquiring more chips and as fast as possible is key to getting ahead.
I tend to survive in tournaments then get knocked out at one of the lower ends of the payouts(if there is any at all). Trying this loose-aggressive style feels real exciting. I just really feel that if I play this way I could build a monster stack pretty quick and increase my chances of making it first place or closer to first place. Problem is, I think my lose rate is going to go way up. But in the long run, im guessing its better to play loose and shoot for 1st place rather than just survive and make it to the money.
Im pretty new to the game of poker, ive started off with this extremely tight and conservative style of play. But as I learn more im finding myself to loosen up but I get knocked out at the early levels more often. I dont really care either, because in the end I always feel like ive done right by shooting high, and telling myself that the money I lose doesnt matter, because im always even. No need to worry about getting back my losses.
 
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mcbogart

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It's not about how often you finish in the money, it is about how deep you get when you are in the money
 
dealio96

dealio96

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it is about how deep you get when you are in the money


Definitely not about this... It's about making +EV decisions over the long run. ;) Even a dog's butt sees the light of day(if you dig what I'm saying).

and for what it's worth.... LAG Monkey style FTW!
 
TomKat1958

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There are all kinds of strategies to win tourneys or finish in the top money. You have to pay attention and work your chip stack with the appropriate large enough bets when you have winners. Don't over bet and run out extra chips you can win. Don't underbet and allow too many players to compete and one of them suck you out on the river.
 
2easy4ninja

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Ive been playing a loose aggressive style recently after reading a tournament book that promotes this style of play. It talks about "utility" and how acquiring more chips and as fast as possible is key to getting ahead.
I tend to survive in tournaments then get knocked out at one of the lower ends of the payouts(if there is any at all). Trying this loose-aggressive style feels real exciting. I just really feel that if I play this way I could build a monster stack pretty quick and increase my chances of making it first place or closer to first place. Problem is, I think my lose rate is going to go way up. But in the long run, im guessing its better to play loose and shoot for 1st place rather than just survive and make it to the money.
Im pretty new to the game of poker, ive started off with this extremely tight and conservative style of play. But as I learn more im finding myself to loosen up but I get knocked out at the early levels more often. I dont really care either, because in the end I always feel like ive done right by shooting high, and telling myself that the money I lose doesnt matter, because im always even. No need to worry about getting back my losses.

dont care about this, its poker.
i have a friend, he plays 5 years (poker work for him)
he plays tourneys with buy:ins 11$ / 100$ but last 2 month he have 0 profit
he even had to take loans to pay for housing and not to be left without a bankroll
don't stop to believe, and study every time if u wanna be champion
yea, need much learn, write, see stream, etc
but who telling what this way easy? ;]
 
Marcwantstowin

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Hi roreyn02

I play pretty "loose and aggressive" as well and can tell you that whatever your preferred style is that you have to adjust the style to fit the situation. I agree it is good, (and normally), easy to make a large stack early in the tournament. However, once you make that large stack you will need to pull in the reins a bit, pick your plays carefully as you will be a target for others, and wait until the bubble approaches before you then increase the aggression again. I say this is because that is when others tend to tighten up to just make the money. After the bubble has burst, you will find that others tend to relax and loosen up, so I would tighten up again, picking my plays carefully again. Then aim for 1st.

It all depends on your priority, whether you play alot of hands or a few. This is where it all comes down to how the hands are playing. e.g. If you are card dead for an hour and get nothing, you will need to check both your M, (stack size compared to blinds), & stack size compared to the avg. There are so many other things I could mention, but if it was that easy anyone would be able to do it ?? Right. Gl in the future..............:D:D:D
 
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hffjd2000

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Every style has its own merits.

But what I know, being LA is somewhat expensive. You must have good BR to cover those many loses.

Whats good here is as you mention above, you can build a monster stack right away and be ahead from the rest.
 
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Xmaster

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The lag-Style seems of course very cool, especially on tv. But I think, it is very difficult to handle. I don't think that the there are a lot of good lag-players in the micro tournaments. But of course, everyone can play what he wants to.
 
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thatgreekdude

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Yes losing more than you win is 'normal' for the majority of recreational players. If you're having fun and it's not hurting you financially go for it.
 
STL FAN

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Ive been playing a loose aggressive style recently after reading a tournament book that promotes this style of play. It talks about "utility" and how acquiring more chips and as fast as possible is key to getting ahead.
I tend to survive in tournaments then get knocked out at one of the lower ends of the payouts(if there is any at all). Trying this loose-aggressive style feels real exciting. I just really feel that if I play this way I could build a monster stack pretty quick and increase my chances of making it first place or closer to first place. Problem is, I think my lose rate is going to go way up. But in the long run, im guessing its better to play loose and shoot for 1st place rather than just survive and make it to the money.
Im pretty new to the game of poker, ive started off with this extremely tight and conservative style of play. But as I learn more im finding myself to loosen up but I get knocked out at the early levels more often. I dont really care either, because in the end I always feel like ive done right by shooting high, and telling myself that the money I lose doesnt matter, because im always even. No need to worry about getting back my losses.



To address the original topic, I lose more than I win, normal right? I believe most accept this as normal because of MTT’s have such a high variance in skill; which affects the variance in results from the variance of play. Acceptance about things out of our control is why I believe when venturing in to other styles that come from other parts of our individual personalities; acceptance from trial and error parallels this thinking.

Explaining this does not change anything however, understanding the information from a book about how to play a style, how, when, where, and why has to be plugged in to each situation based on what the individual sees at the table. If a person is learning about LAG style the best a person could do is learn the concepts, theories about the style. People like what they see on T.V., a video, or other sources of information. I believe this is part of why I define most, not all, of the poker community as sheepul because they follow what they see, or read about poker. Because the information is only being narrated from the person’s perspective and what I understand about poker, we are who we are and we cannot be the person who is giving the information, but there might be a small percentage that can, then be successful?

For example, the last five years I have worked on LAG style not so much to use this style only but the decisions that come from this style to be used properly, consistently, when I change my introvert to extrovert personality for the reason that I am reading about the table, people consistently when I use this approach.

Both of my coaches are LAG players, however, when I try play like them I fall flat on my face. Why? I am not them and it is absurd to think that I can play with their skill set from my perspective. So, watching and taking notes, then applying their concepts, theories are the best I can do at this time until I get more personal experience. I have their ear all of the time which allows me to ask questions, and I still have the same pit falls as you explain here in this post. So, when people are reading, watching, and using information without being able to ask questions to the person whom is presenting the information? Why would a person including myself believe they are just as talented as the presenter? I believe how can I apply my level of skill set that is under my coaches and then think I am going to use their information the same way because they both have a higher skill set than mine about being a LAG; is it absurd to believe I can?

The same way a video or book is presenting the information, because the person who is presenting the information is obviously more talented than the person who is trying to improve from the information otherwise, why are they looking for new information? So, how can they be sure without a doubt what they are interpreting is proper for them? Applying it properly? Making the proper decisions? Mentally a person has to be realistic to what they want and can accomplish without knowing the person, without being able to ask questions? Being a researcher at the table helps with the getting the right information for the style they are trying to implement into their game. For example, to take notes through observation, trial and error, and journaling their thoughts. Adjusting their theories, concepts, and information through trial and error; otherwise, it is just basic information being used about a style without any added indepthness about the style. This is where I adjusted LAG information to better fit my personality, introvert, or extrovert. Without some adjustments in thinking about the information presented; this I believe is why most see a high variance in results without adjustments in stressful,pressure situaitons, from trying something different in their game, including myself.

I try and am consistent with decisions because no matter the style, the person who is successful will have better decision skill set than that of their opponents. The person who can make proper decisions, longer, more consistent over a longer period of time than their opponents; will have the edge over the long run, and the style chosen has little influence compared to when a person is properly making the right decision based on reads about their opponents. So, where I finish is not important because when I make better decisions than my opponents I will win in the long run, even if the variance of skill wins over my better decisions in the short term. I concentrate, focus, journal or take notes, observe this about myself and that of my opponents, this trumps what I am trying to do with my style of play. Glad to meet you and this is just some additional information to an already interesting topic of discussion.
 
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11012015

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You probably are new to poker. Over time to rectify the situation.
 
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floweryhead

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Is it the Snyder book you refer to? I think it's less about playing a particular style and more about playing the situation. The majority of players learn to play TAG as that's what most the books show. The problem with this though is that the TAG style is more of a way to avoid losses rather than a way of winning. Although TAG is a winning method it's not a huge winning method. The way I play alters hugely dependent upon who's in and whether the table is loose, tight etc... On top of that... if I'm up against a lot of regs I'll use various differing strategies on top of everything else so that I'm not too predictable to them.
 
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aolguin3

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Playing aggressive and trying to build your stack so you could get ahead at the beginning of a tournament its worthless. You would see after blinds start going up it is easier for the little guy to take on the big guy... this is because blinds are higher and if you have a 40k stack a kid with a 10k stack can call you 2 times all in and he will take your chips away very easy if you are using your aggressive style with low cards. Just maintain yourself with an average stack so when higher blinds get there you could really be aggressive and double up at the right time in the game.
 
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aolguin3

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Ive been 1st with 48k with a 30K lead on most of the players and made 2 bad calls and ended up with a 5k stack in 2 hands. Good thing I got back and ended 6th place but like I said before having the lead doesn't guarantee you 1st place. Play smart and have some luck and then you might finish 1st.
 
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