I keep bubbling:(

Hi,

I seem to be bubbling a lot and I'm not sure why that is. If I am the shortstack or one of the shortstacks on the bubble I play really tight. However I will shove in late position with TT+ and AK especially if the other short stack is in the blinds. And then I get called, its a coin flip, which I always seem to lose...

Is this bad play? Should I only be playing AA, KK as a shortstack on the bubble? I know I asked a similar question last week, but I really need some advice to start making the money again. Thanks

Here are a few random thoughts on bubbletime that may give food for thought:

1. Don't be afraid to play a good hand. It is tempting to play tight in the hope another SS will bust first, especially if they are next up in the blinds. It can work, but you'll feel a right charlie if you fold AQ, they survive and you get rubbish for the next 5 hands.

2. If you are shoving and would ideally like everyone to fold, pick on a stack that you can hurt. eg with 10bb on the button mid pos raises 3bb; a 15bb stack may fold to your shove whereas a 5bb or 30bb won't.

3. Don't let your stack get so low that no-one will fold - if you have folded down to 5bb it is too easy for a huge stack to call.

4. Think about this: if you shove with 66 you are slightly ahead of AKo but slightly behind T9s. So, if you have an unthreatening stack you are more likely to get an easy call from hands that are bad for you (T9s); but if you have a threatening stack T9s will fold but AK (which you prefer to see) will call.

I hope these thoughts help.

Read "Harrington on Hold'em". Lots of good advice.

You're playing WAY TOO TIGHT on a shortstack.
If you're referring to bubbling in 9plyr SNG's, you should sometimes be shoving atc's (any two cards) with less than 10bb's in SB vs BB, and on the button.
You need to consider opening up your range a TON!!!!

HOH is a good suggestion. So would Collin Moshmann's SNG Strategy (or pretty much anything really if you're playing this tight on a shortstack).

so I should be hoping to push with a wider range in late position as a shortstack, and be happy to get a coinflip? I'm bubbling a lot with coinflips and even as a favorite, when I could probably just fold my way into the money (which would be much better than what I'm doing now).

It's all dependent upon the stack sizes. If you are one of the shorties, the onus is on you to no longer be that short stack. Like Orifice said, you need to be jamming fairly wide, you don't have time on your side, and if you don't double or chip up a bit, then you're going to bubble out anyway.

If there's another bubble player, than you need to tailor your play to his. If he's playing super tight himself, then you don't really need to double up, just chip up enough so he's the shorter and let the blinds wear him down. If he's throwing chips around, then of course yes stay back and let him go busto or double, at which point you're going to revert to your very aggressive preflop play.

Agree with previous posts. Open up earlier and play more aggressive in decent position.

As far as the bubble goes, if the payouts are small at the bubble, why even let that be an issue. Play based more on the size of your stack relative to the average in the tourney. If the payouts at the bubble are important to you, then play accordingly. It's a personal decision.

suu18 said:

so I should be hoping to push with a wider range in late position as a shortstack, and be happy to get a coinflip? I'm bubbling a lot with coinflips and even as a favorite, when I could probably just fold my way into the money (which would be much better than what I'm doing now).

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Take a look at why you find yourself as the shortstack in the first place. Do you play so tight that your starting stack just gets whittled down or are you more aggressive earlier? Examine your play a few blind raises before the crucial near bubble moment and see if you can steal some blinds or bully someone out of a hand.

The trouble with being shortstack is that we often have to take a coinflip just to stay alive as our small raise is just too easy for bigstack to call. In terms of the tournament as a whole, a check raise (semi-bluff)to a flushy board a few rounds earlier is probably no more risky than a last ditch bubble call with AQo preflop, yet it has the effect of keeping us in a comfortable position.

As Pup said, why are you getting Short stacked?

Are you playing too tight?
What cards are you playing with a normal sized stack?

Too often I see people (expecially at 9 player SnG's) playing too aggressive at the beginning because the blinds are small.
They may get a few pots for 30-60 chips but later on they will find themselves in a big pot with the same small rags they have been playing.
They lose that pot and several hundred chips.

Then they try to make it back by betting too much with marginal hands and get called because they now appear loose

They then find themselves short stacked when the blinds are still very small.

So they force the issue and try even more risky plays

Patience is the key.

I think if your chip stack is so low, that it may induce many to want to call your bet or even an all in bet so as to try and eliminate you from a tourney. Or it could just be a case of some unfortunate luck and that is why you keep going out late in the events you have played lately. Keep on trying my friend, and hope you have better success in the future.

If I can fold my way into the money and still have a chance to win the tournament I'll do it. I hate playing for hours and getting nothing.
It's the aggresive players that do the best in these situations though. So many players are just trying to slide into the money that you can pad your chip stack around the bubble instead of letting the chips go.
Be patient, watch your opponents and pick your spots - your two cards don't much matter if you think you can safely by the blinds.

I agree with what the others are saying, you need to open your range to shove more, you are playing way too tight on the bubble. Play aggresive in late position and steal the blinds.

suu18 said:

so I should be hoping to push with a wider range in late position as a shortstack, and be happy to get a coinflip? I'm bubbling a lot with coinflips and even as a favorite, when I could probably just fold my way into the money (which would be much better than what I'm doing now).

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Why are we assuming that we're going to be called? THink about it, if you're shoving 10bb (9bb whatever) in SB, what range of hands is BB going to be willing to call with????? And how often do you figure they'll have such a hand? (If they're only calling with top10%... then 9x they aren't calling you... even if villain is a ICM dumbodonktard, you still can be shoving way wider than you're suggesting... ie. T9s is a shove SBvBB).

If you let your stack get very small, then villain will be much more likely to call your shove (realizing that you should be then shoving atc... but even knowing you've been super tight (to a fault) they'll likely be getting good enough pot odds to make the call... especially if there are antes involved.. & if by making the call it doesn't affect their stack to the degree where they won't have fold equity when they're shoving.

Something to consider >>>> Shove wide... call tight