Can I get Away?

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ssbn743

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I play in a wsop league every year (9 player live SNG’s for points), I hand a hand occur the other night in which I was busted, but I wanted to write it up and see what everyone’s thoughts were.

The blinds were $50/$300/$600 and we were 6-handed. My stack was $9K, starting stacks were $10K and I had about $19K until 3 hands prior when another player 2-outed me. Anyway, the villain had $11K.

During the deal, my opponents’ seconds card was revealed by the dealer, the Qc, he then dealt the villain the last card and made the Qc the burn card. The villain, who was UTG, opened to $1,500. He was kind of a NIT/Novice and, it was very clear, the raise meant a hand. He had done a lot of limping, and a lot of calling, though he had raised a few times prior, he was mostly a NIT.

I was UTG+1 and found Qs Qh. Shit….

After pausing for just a few seconds, I moved all-in and was called by Ac Ah from the villain to be busted.

The reason I’m posting this is because I don’t think I can ever get away from this – even with the exposed Queen. I’ve got 15BB and the 6–handed UTG raise could be a pretty wide range, even from a nitty player; he could have had JJ or AK, AQ easily. Maybe, I could have 3-bet to $2500 (just under 30% of my stack) and folded to the 4-bet, maybe – but this was a single table SNG for WSOP points.

Shittier still, had the Qc not been exposed, he would have had AQ and the same result was likely – but that’s nonsense I know.

Hmmm – anyone?
 
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lordrobes

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Yeah, I'm not seeing myself get away from that either. Especially with only 15BB. I think it is just one of those times in poker when the "right move" just didn't work out and you have to move on to the next hand/tournament/SNG knowing that situation will more than likely work out in your favor next time.
 
Speedbruce

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The question here is, does it worth to stay a little more in the table with 15bb-10bb or do you have to jump above average to win something? If you could do good with a lower stack, so try a 3-bet,fold to the 4-bet and keep going, but if you have to play to win instead, then the shove is the way to go. The guy just got lucky twice, for your sadness!! :( :( :(
 
detroitjunkie

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a few points
1. not so sure he could have had AQ here if he as much a nit as you think, or that he make same call with AQ without the exposed card issue. Maybe JJ or AK.
2. In a regular SNG I say shove and pray everytime
3. However, since this is a points based affair, perhaps we need to know the point structure and where you were in the standings at the time, and where villain was in standings at the time, this may have an effect on your play in this spot.
 
PershingSt

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I think you made the correct play and should be getting it in here , its unlucky to be in a cooler situation but with your stack size , I dont see how you can get away from a premium like qq here . Obviously the villain will also have AK and probably JJ in his range here as well .
 
SBEP

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U can make a point that, to fold the QQ to a 4 bet is the right play, and also to shove with them is the right play, why folding the QQ is the right play, well u said it one of your outs was burned, u were left with just 1 out in the deck and a raise from a NIT which his worst hand is AK and his best AA, and thats what he had AA, why is the shove also right play, u had 15BB left, its no brainer to shove with pocket QQ, so either way u would have done the right thing, and thats why u feel some what not sure u have made the right play, at least thats my opinion, i could be wrong :D
 
edc1

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i dont see how you could not ship yer stack with q-q -just coolered it happens live just like online-my last trip to casino i lost with a set of aces to a guy who wouldnt fold a-9os for stacks by the river he made a str8-he was a lag player so i was hoping he would call-when ace hit the flop i was hoping he had one in his hand-sometimes when i make the best play i can lady luck takes a dump on me-whether i push al-in or not-so i think you played it great especialy at 9k stack and 300/600 blinds
 
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ssbn743

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a few points
1. not so sure he could have had AQ here if he as much a nit as you think, or that he make same call with AQ without the exposed card issue. Maybe JJ or AK.
2. In a regular SNG I say shove and pray everytime
3. However, since this is a points based affair, perhaps we need to know the point structure and where you were in the standings at the time, and where villain was in standings at the time, this may have an effect on your play in this spot.

It’s actually not the best point structure, in my opinion, but it’s not my league. It’s a flat rate $2,120/year to play and we have two 10 handed SNG’s every month; you have to take 2 months off and get 8 games to accrue points; we have 25 players with 5 people off every game. First place is 12 points on down to 0 points at 10th place. (It used to by 9 handed SNG’s, sorry for misspeaking in the OP).

As of this game, first place was all but out of reach at 47 by a player that has already taken his months off. I am currently in 2nd or 3rd, maybe 4th, it’s unclear at the moment, with 41 points, but I haven’t taken any time off yet – both of my off months are the last two months – that was selected by random draw.

So, it really doesn’t make much difference IMO. First place in points, gets a $10K ME seat, but everyone else plays in a final 3-table SNG where starting stacks are determined by the number of points accrued. I’ve currently got one game left, which means I can achieve 53 points at best – so first is out of reach barring a miracle – he can fold his way to a win.

As for the AQ possibility, I agree that AQ probably doesn’t get 4-bet or over-called, but even NIT’s know 6-handed hand values are higher. Plus, this player didn’t fit neatly into the NIT category, more like a novice station – the pre-flop raise is what turned him into a NIT in my mind – he doesn’t raise, ever, without the goods! But, yeah, you’re probably right, if he had AQ he folds to my all-in. So that leaves a standard premium range, 19/16 combo wise (only add 1 combo for Queens since I have QQ) with AK and JJ+.

I don’t know, I’ve been chewing on this for days and I can’t find a way out of this one!
 
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rickroll

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it's a cooler dude, 6 handed, 15bb, you ship QQ no matter what
 
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rickroll

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ps QQ isn't actually a drawing hand, you're more hoping they miss their A
 
detroitjunkie

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Yea with your explanation of the points situation you had no other move but to shove, the downside is very minimal and you had to win outright to be able to even dream about catching the leader
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Stop beating yourself up - your play was correct. Even if you called and the flop revealed no over cards you're going to shove over his c-bet and if he checks you're going to bet (if not shove). Folding would be ridiculous. As someone stated, it's a cooler that you were destined to lose. It happens.
 
slicheri93

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Not that much that you can do 99% of the people wouldn't walk away with that hand, So yeah you did the right thing to bad he had you beat like that tho
 
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roman sevastyanov

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if a strong desire , you can
 
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freestocks

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QQ is good enough to go broke. I would have too.
 
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