I did a good read, but a good move?

This was today at the Cardschat tournament. I would like to know if my line of play was good or what things could be improved.

Everybody folds. I am in the CO with AJ and 15bb. Behind me is the button, a tricky player with 10bb, the SB, a tight player with 41bb and the BB, a very loose player (VPIP 35), with 14bb who has been going all-in with hands like K7 or J9.

Here is the first step that makes me doubt. I do a 4bb open raise. I don't usually raise so large but I want to discourage the button traps. Why not go all-in, then? Actually I thought that if the button or SB paids me that raise they would have a strong hand, then I could still fold if the flop didn't help me.

BTN folds, and SB too, but BB re-raise and goes all-in.

I didn't expect that move. But I had watched him for a while and I considered that the percentage of chances that he had a hand that dominated me was very small. I decided to put him in a smaller pair or even in two other lower cards. Then, if I have almost 50% against a smaller pair and almost 65% against two other lower cards or a lower ace, the odds give me to call the all-in.

He shows A4s. In the flop comes a 4 and he wins.

And here is my question. Even assuming that my hand was better than his, I didn't have a made hand. So, should I have folded and not risk my stay in the tournament with 65% of chances?

4x??

jadaminato said:

This was today at the Cardschat tournament. I would like to know if my line of play was good or what things could be improved.

Everybody folds. I am in the CO with AJ and 15bb. Behind me is the button, a tricky player with 10bb, the SB, a tight player with 41bb and the BB, a very loose player (VPIP 35), with 14bb who has been going all-in with hands like K7 or J9.

Here is the first step that makes me doubt. I do a 4bb open raise. I don't usually raise so large but I want to discourage the button traps. Why not go all-in, then? Actually I thought that if the button or SB paids me that raise they would have a strong hand, then I could still fold if the flop didn't help me.

BTN folds, and SB too, but BB re-raise and goes all-in.

I didn't expect that move. But I had watched him for a while and I considered that the percentage of chances that he had a hand that dominated me was very small. I decided to put him in a smaller pair or even in two other lower cards. Then, if I have almost 50% against a smaller pair and almost 65% against two other lower cards or a lower ace, the odds give me to call the all-in.

He shows A4s. In the flop comes a 4 and he wins.

And here is my question. Even assuming that my hand was better than his, I didn't have a made hand. So, should I have folded and not risk my stay in the tournament with 65% of chances?

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In my opinion a 4x raise is never a good play, especially with a wild card in the BB. A 4x raise can mean one of two things a very big hand or a very marginal scared hand like KJ or something along those lines just looking for folds so you can take down the blinds. I would never advise raising 4x, ever, even if you think you have a reason for such a ridiculous sized raise. I raise 2x or 2.5x regularly and 3x from EP, I find this works out quite well for me. You have 15 BB, a 4x raise seems like a scared player playing a scared hand in my opinion, you get just as much information as 2.5x would have given you. 2 or 2.5x gives you the chance to happily fold your hand when you feel the need to, and doesn't create oversized pots. I would never have folded AJ here though either to this player. You got unlucky, but you made a bad raise into a bad player and forced yourself into a bad spot where you had to gamble, plain and simple. Even if I had raised 2.5x into this player and he shoves after I have seen some of the hands hes played, I call 100% of the time. You got unlucky, but try not to raise yourself into spots where you almost have to call with 11 BB behind, smaller raises give you just as much info as a 4x raise would. Who cares if yur 2 2.5x raise brought in another player behind you, it might slow the BB down or if he makes the same all in you have to fold because of the player that called behind you with AJ and you save your tournament. Lesson learned?? Don't raise 4x it's very poor play.

Hi
I would fold if I was pushed all in with AJ.

They could hold AQ or AK or some 99+pairs
Best to fold preflop.

With your stack I believe the call is the correct play. You were right in your read but just got unlucky. Don't blame yourself on the outcome, but on the decision and what they had. You are still ahead pre.

Just shove preflop with 14bb when you open from CO in that situation.. no point of all the other stuff

You did a really decent job with monitoring your table and that’s what poker is all about. I wont say that your 4bet here is completely wrong because i don’t know how often you were betting against this guy and folding after his all ins, if so...You played well, you were ahead here, just unlucky this time. If you decided to go all in pre it’s true that you would have some fold equity but against this particular player, as you described him/her, the outcome would probably be the same. So thumbs up for the job you did, keep on monitoring your table, analyze your opponents and you are good

I think the movement was correct and the reading of the opponent was perfect, the only thing you should have from my point of view was to do shove and not a raise x4 because I say this because with 15BB doing a raise x4 does not have much logic although with a Call of any of the opponents that remain to play would allow you to see the flop and if the flop does not help you you would fold but your stack would be too low for that it is preferable to go all-in on the pre-flop with a good hand like AJ in the CO spot

I think the only questionable thing about your play was raising to 4X preflop. I am not a loose or tight player. If I was in the BB i would see a late position player raise as a steal attempt many time and look at a possible re-steal. When you raise to 4X alarm bells would be ringing in my head. I would be thinking you are most likely committed to the hand if I shove and only raise hand that would have your range beat. If you had bet smaller normal size it would not give me question to as if you had a hand. I think you will be loosing value by raising so much against smart players who are watching as you are. If I were you raise to 2.25 to 2.5X of shove but 15BB shove may not be the best move here as it maybe a tiny bit to much to shove. FYI, very good observations of the game mate.

Don't dwell on the hand it was a good read, good call. You got it in with the best hand... Poker is a cruel sport. With A-J I might've shoved here as others were saying, depending on the stage of the tournament and how close to being paid you were.

i think all in jam here was the correct way to play the hand , 4bb raise is almost a pot comitted raise , i think the BB will call even with an all in jam , so wp

Thank you for all your replies. It was clear to me that the size of my raise was the mistake. I should have kept my x2.2 or shove. I will try to apply learning in the next games. See you at the tables!

First you dont tell us if its suited or not. And then in what parts of the tournament. If it suited i would go all in in rightaway, if not i would not risk my already little chip. Maybe 2bb is enough.

Your logic is sound is sound from start to finish. With the bigger raise you may get slightly better pot odds on your call, but I agree that the raise was much too high- everything becomes more volatile- there is more in the pot preflop- encouraging a a player to make a move. If you do get a flat calls the pot is very volatile post flop- harder to play and harder to read a player.

I rarely raise more than 2.5bb, except very early in the tourney or with pairs. I'm bad at working out the pot odds but I think it was about 1.7 to 1 on the call. I'd much rather see like 2.3 to 1 or better. My post-flop play is much stronger than most players so I prefer to out play a player than to risk my tourney life on a call that may be just slightly favorable.
Save that call for much later in the tourney.