Hypotheical SNG Situation question

Just want some opinions/thoughts on this.

This is a $5 6-seat SNG. 2 places pay.

Blinds are 100/200

Hero: 6650
Villain 1: 250 (sitting out)
Villain 2: 2100

Villain 2: Button
Hero: Post SB (100)
Villain 1: Post BB (200) (sitting out)

Villain 2: Folds
Hero: ???

...What is your play here? And why?

is be folding.. i want to target the guy who is actually here sitting down.. so id fold every time to the bb.. and try to knock out the other shortie.... so when were heads up theres no way i can lose L

WiZZiM said:

is be folding.. i want to target the guy who is actually here sitting down.. so id fold every time to the bb.. and try to knock out the other shortie.... so when were heads up theres no way i can lose L

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There's no way I'm folding chips with that much of a chip lead to the BB where the other player can then pick up more chips. Next hand Villain 1 is SB and just about out and you are in money
You have a 10/1 chip lead on villain 2...you should win most times
I understand the theory of folding to the bb....I just can't do it

Fold so that Villain 1 will definitely survive their small blind. That leaves the pressure on Villain 2 to fold all but the very top end of their range.

Ideally we shove ATC from the button, Villain 2 folds unless they wake up with a monster and then we get to repeat the cycle until they're both ground down to pretty much nothing.

Do not fold. You run the risk of being reported for soft-playing/chip dumping. One tournament is not worth the risk to your account.

dwolfg said:

Do not fold. You run the risk of being reported for soft-playing/chip dumping. One tournament is not worth the risk to your account.

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Dont be ridic.
Even if the other guy where to report this as softplaying the staff of most poker sides would realize that it was quiet clearly the highest +ev play for u and there for not colution since it served your purpose first and for most...

sindri_93 said:

Dont be ridic.
Even if the other guy where to report this as softplaying the staff of most poker sides would realize that it was quiet clearly the highest +ev play for u and there for not colution since it served your purpose first and for most...

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Folding when there is a 100% chance of you winning the hand is the highest form of chip dumping.

What are you kidding? That guys going out in a second and the maximum chips you can lose is 850...AUTO PUSH! Chances are the BB just wants second so he's folding anything except the nuts. Take his blinds or go for the easy first place. It's a tougher question if you are the person with 850 chips and you're SB vs chip leader's BB with a KJish hand.

Henreiman said:

What are you kidding? That guys going out in a second and the maximum chips you can lose is 850...AUTO PUSH! Chances are the BB just wants second so he's folding anything except the nuts. Take his blinds or go for the easy first place. It's a tougher question if you are the person with 850 chips and you're SB vs chip leader's BB with a KJish hand.

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Lets change it to this.

This is a $5 6-seat SNG. 2 places pay.

Blinds are 100/200

Hero: 6650
Villain 1: 250 (sitting out)
Villain 2: 2100

Villain 2: Button
Hero: Post SB (100)
Villain 1: Post BB (200) (sitting out)

Villain 2: Folds
Hero: ???

...What is your play here? And why?
...Does your play differ?

What I find interesting is the thought of turning the OP on its head somewhat and assuming we're villain 2, then asking what our button shoving range should be if we know that hero is folding any two cards from the SB should we fold the button.

On one hand the sitter isn't all-in and thus can survive another hand but on the other hand we have a little fold equity and by folding we essentially forfeit any chance of winning.

Or to make it even more awkward, assume villain has 50 less chips and hence is all-in in the BB but hero will still fold if we fold, what should we be shoving from the button with then?

dwolfg said:

Do not fold. You run the risk of being reported for soft-playing/chip dumping. One tournament is not worth the risk to your account.

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You might want to read over the other responses on here... cuz ur way off the mark.

dwolfg said:

Folding when there is a 100% chance of you winning the hand is the highest form of chip dumping.

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OMG.. you really don't get it do ya?
What advantage is there of taking out the shortstack (sitter)? There's ZERO!!! This would be laughable to send in to support (my guess is, if support was friendly & not just tilted by the email, he'd suggest picking up some ABC's on tournament poker, or maybe steer you towards FT Academy.... or who knows.. .they might have some land in Florida for sale?).
Sorry for the need to flame ya here... but you seem to be really stuck on some tunnel vision & are failing miserably to see what is the best play here.. & 'WHY'. (this is an extreme example because SS is very short with 850 chips but still... you let Shortest stack stay alive so you can pummel on the other stack... this is a given).

Dorkus Malorkus said:

What I find interesting is the thought of turning the OP on its head somewhat and assuming we're villain 2, then asking what our button shoving range should be if we know that hero is folding any two cards from the SB should we fold the button.

On one hand the sitter isn't all-in and thus can survive another hand but on the other hand we have a little fold equity and by folding we essentially forfeit any chance of winning.

Or to make it even more awkward, assume villain has 50 less chips and hence is all-in in the BB but hero will still fold if we fold, what should we be shoving from the button with then?

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Unfortunately... I think we shouldn't be, lol. Good question actually.

philthy said:

Lets change it to this.

This is a $5 6-seat SNG. 2 places pay.

Blinds are 100/200

Hero: 6650
Villain 1: 250 (sitting out)
Villain 2: 2100

Villain 2: Button
Hero: Post SB (100)
Villain 1: Post BB (200) (sitting out)

Villain 2: Folds
Hero: ???

...What is your play here? And why?
...Does your play differ?

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here its even better. as the other scenario we can prob just burst the bubble and well most likely win.. here we can take blinds of villain 2 for as long as we can. if we can take him down to like 1500 or less good job.. were now in with a better chance of winning.... so no my play does not change one bit.. id be folding and shoving any two from the button.. villian 2 cant really call without a monster and even if he does we win a small % and if the worst case scenario happens and he doubles through.. oh well.. now lets take the shortie out..

to all you guys who said raise.. were missing out on a golden opportunity to take chips.. the good sng players make their money by owning the bubble situations.. it can be the most profitable time as calling ranges are super tight..

and remember this too. even if we get called by AA we still win a % of the time...

whoever said this is chip dumping needs his head examined..

i would be probably raising and pushing all in every single hand regardless of what i have, but than again, i am not a very good sng player/.

Poker Orifice said:

OMG.. you really don't get it do ya?
What advantage is there of taking out the shortstack (sitter)? There's ZERO!!! This would be laughable to send in to support (my guess is, if support was friendly & not just tilted by the email, he'd suggest picking up some ABC's on tournament poker, or maybe steer you towards FT Academy.... or who knows.. .they might have some land in Florida for sale?).
Sorry for the need to flame ya here... but you seem to be really stuck on some tunnel vision & are failing miserably to see what is the best play here.. & 'WHY'. (this is an extreme example because SS is very short with 850 chips but still... you let Shortest stack stay alive so you can pummel on the other stack... this is a given).

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You don't seem to get it. It is against the rules to soft-play or chip dump. It is the exact same as folding the nuts to keep someone in, since you cannot lose the hand unless you fold. If the shortest stack wasn't sitting out that would be a different story.

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/site-terms number 6

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/policies/ number 8

i think ill take my chances... i highly doubt. number one that this situation will come up very often.. and two.. that someone will actually report it.. three. youll prob just get a warning if you do get reported.. i highly doubt they can ban you for that... i still dont believe this is chip dumping.. its just playing your cards in the optimal way..

even if the guy was sitting in id fold most of the time.. if the BB had a stack over 1000 chips.. if i had AA there and he was sitting in id fold it for sure... thats folding the nuts preflop.. so that is chip dumping too i guiess?? meh. report me.. ill just make another account.. haha *waiting for "but youll be in violation of rule 4!!!!!"*

OP, after posting the sitter will have 50 chips, so raising is correct, because he is sitting and will fold. Villain2 will be left with 600 chips for the next HU hand. I'll take a 13 to 1 advantage into HU any day.

in the revised hand, it looks clear to me that villain2 is ICM'ing it and wants the sitter gone. Again, sitter will have 50 chips left, and Hero will either end up with sitters chips or villain 2 will in the next hand.

Hero wants those chips.

So in both cases, raise, get the free chips, and move on.

I think perhaps this problem should back up 4 or 5 hands when it was not nearly as clear that villain1 would essentially blind out. Assuming standard bubble play, it is likely that V2 has been trying to out sit V1 to be sure of making the money. So showing pressure on V2 several hands before this was where ,IMHO, the real action was.

I might be inclined to fold if V1 was actually there, because V1 could add some actual challenge to V2. But still, in both cases I'm inclined to push the tourney along to its end.

Obvious allin.

Really, i don't understand why the guy folds...

volpereira said:

Obvious allin.

Really, i don't understand why the guy folds...

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I made a revise of the situation/question. Not sure if you saw it.

Oh, I see, I read OP wrong haha. I was under the assumption that Villain 1 had auto folded and Villain 2 was left. It's an interesting thought. You don't have to call in any form, how you play your two cards are up to you. And worst comes to worst you can just explain you weren't aware he was sitting. Personally, I'd call with any two in an opportunity to get more money. Plus, sitter could return, you never know.

My play doesn't alter in either situation, I raise and take the free chips, and guarantee myself cash

WiZZiM said:

even if the guy was sitting in id fold most of the time.. if the BB had a stack over 1000 chips.. if i had AA there and he was sitting in id fold it for sure... thats folding the nuts preflop.. so that is chip dumping too i guiess?? meh. report me.. ill just make another account.. haha *waiting for "but youll be in violation of rule 4!!!!!"*

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If you want to risk forfeiture of the funds in your account, that's your business. To me, one tournament out of thousands isn't worth the risk.