HU against a maniac, how to deal with?

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ComplexPlaya

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So today I ended up HU in this satelite against a maniac. He would raise, go all in etc. with total air most of the times (and show me to boast).

Obviously I couldn't do my favorite HU play, raise cbet alot with decent hands because he would shove me every time with air and I had to fold.

After a few tense showdowns, our stacks were equal, he went AI with A4 os I called with A8 os, he got the 4 and won. That's ok, but my question is...should I have called with just say a K overcard all those times he shoved?
Or did I play it right waiting to get at least a 3rd button to call/shove with? (which didn't come often enough to drain him in the end)
 
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swingro

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U played ok. He was lucky, that was all. Eather u w8 for a big pair ... or challenge him. That is no poker and u can't do nothing but to w8 for a big pair to maximise your chances of winning.
 
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only_bridge

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It depends on how deep stacked you were.
 
Maid Marian

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Anything goes in HU play...sometimes you have to play like a maniac in order to win it! The cards will not always be there for you &, if you sit there & fold till you get premium cards, you will probably lose!:ridinghor :ridinghor :ridinghor Best luck when you play next time!:)
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Anything goes in HU play...sometimes you have to play like a maniac in order to win it! The cards will not always be there for you &, if you sit there & fold till you get premium cards, you will probably lose!:ridinghor :ridinghor :ridinghor Best luck when you play next time!:)


Thanks. I did win money for 2nd place, so it was ok. But of course I know better than not folding unless I have a premium, however I never even got a third button to call with. I thought calling with stuff like overcard K on the turn would be too risky...
 
forsakenone

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i have the same problem, cant win vs these kind of guys. i played a 200 FPPs (frequent player points on pokerstars) satelite to the sunday 250k guaranteed, it has 10 players, i eliminated 8 players, the one i had heads up eliminated 1 player, once heads up he decides to go all in every hand, blinds are not very big, so i decide to wait for a good hand, i pick up 99 he has A7 i lose, i pick AA he has 97 i lose. every hand he goes all in preflop, no exceptions, and i just couldnt win vs the guy.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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i have the same problem, cant win vs these kind of guys. i played a 200 FPPs (frequent player points on pokerstars) satelite to the sunday 250k guaranteed, it has 10 players, i eliminated 8 players, the one i had heads up eliminated 1 player, once heads up he decides to go all in every hand, blinds are not very big, so i decide to wait for a good hand, i pick up 99 he has A7 i lose, i pick AA he has 97 i lose. every hand he goes all in preflop, no exceptions, and i just couldnt win vs the guy.

Well obviously that is just variance. Be happy you didn't lose 500 euros because of it, like I did in HU in another tourney!
 
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You gotta love when someone is playing like that because you know all you have to do is catch a decient hand to dominate him, problem is you still have to catch a decient hand and then have to beat his junk which is never easy. I try not to get into it the first few hands unless I do have cards but you may need to play a K or Q with anything at some point before it goes too far.
 
5TR8 FLUSH

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Anything goes in HU play...sometimes you have to play like a maniac in order to win it! The cards will not always be there for you &, if you sit there & fold till you get premium cards, you will probably lose!:ridinghor :ridinghor :ridinghor Best luck when you play next time!:)

I agree with maid marian, "anything goes in HU play". I think that Q high or better is good enough to call or shove with in HU play. GL
 
FTP_TheNuts

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I find it best when your playing someone who plays like this HU...and you get it alot from inexperienced HU players, its best to sit back and relax, if you have a decent amount of BB's wait for the monsters and then play them very aggresively, maybe if your SB limp your monsters as players like this will raise you pre, just wait, then re shove basically, and hope to hold up.

If someone is shoving every hand id probably be willing to call him with anything K10+
 
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BenLZ

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If he's habitually shoving I'd definitely call with a K and a good kicker, like KQ, KJ. KJ would probably be my minimum.
 
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swingro

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Yeah .. Last night i found a maniac at microstakes who went all in all the hands. After 3 hands I got QQ and called him all in. He had 5 8 offsuit and got a streight on the river 4 6 A K 7:D He took my 4 dollars and he was gone:) I know that was just pure luck but still ... u could get the best hand only with 8 5:))

This is just an unlucky example. Most of the times with a big par or 2 face cards i take all the money from them.
 
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Heads up is a whole type of game in itself that is only vaguely related to regular poker. When you bet in heads up you are usually betting that the villain doesn't have a hand - if there are four to a flush on the board, you don't need the fifth to bet, you are just betting that they don't have it. Also, a lot of the game is about getting the initiative by making the villain feel uncomfortable - you have to take control of the game.

I too have met the 'all in every hand' villain (had one last night who won with 92o against my 88) and I don't really mind it. As a strategy AIEH is not the worst as it really stifles the opponent's play - it is a crude strategy but not necessarily an idiotic one. The easiest way to counter it is to wait for the good hand and hope for the best. But we can be a bit more sophisticated: if blinds are relatively small put in the odd raise from the button, don't be afraid to limp. Assuming they are trying to win and not just get to bed it'll show them that you aren't scared of their play - if you can get one fold out of them (with a big button raise) then you are back in and can start to regain the initiative.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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I too have met the 'all in every hand' villain (had one last night who won with 92o against my 88) and I don't really mind it. As a strategy AIEH is not the worst as it really stifles the opponent's play - it is a crude strategy but not necessarily an idiotic one.

Isn't that contradicting yourself? odds are you will get a hands to call with - even A7, KQ etc. that's better than the average ATC he'll hold. Thus the strategy seems idiotic to me....
 
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volpereira

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I hate this scenario. HU against a maniac 4 me is terrible.

I like do make my raises and control the pots.

In this situation I like to go allin in preflop with Ax, Ks, connectors, or any pair
 
fletchdad

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They say you cant fight fire with fire...... In this case i would beg to differ. The only way to deal with this kind of player is to be aggressive back. Dont be ridiculous, like going all in with 3 6 os (my most hated hand, dont know why tho...) but if you wait til u get a premium, you could get blinded out, and no one gets great hands every time. Pay attention to your stack and play relative to that. If you get a bit short, and you have a decent starter, push back. He playing coin flip anyway, so might as well put him to the test. And like FTP said, if you get a monster, fake weakness and kill him when he attacks.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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They say you cant fight fire with fire...... In this case i would beg to differ. The only way to deal with this kind of player is to be aggressive back. Dont be ridiculous, like going all in with 3 6 os (my most hated hand, dont know why tho...) but if you wait til u get a premium, you could get blinded out, and no one gets great hands every time. Pay attention to your stack and play relative to that. If you get a bit short, and you have a decent starter, push back. He playing coin flip anyway, so might as well put him to the test. And like FTP said, if you get a monster, fake weakness and kill him when he attacks.

I already do all those things man...but thanks :)
 
shrimp29

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Wait them out sooner or later playing like that they will be gone.
 
Poker Orifice

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In order to answer your question is extremely important to know how deep your stacks are for starters.
If stacks are shallow, then you're loose from SB.... tight on BB. It may come to the point where shoving on SB is what you'll need to do alot of the time (even all the time in some cases).
 
rssurfer54

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yeah definitely is key how many bb you each have left. I think there are two kinds of maniacs heads up though. some fold when you get aggressive back, but others will call you or even raise back at you. I think its very important to identify which one you are dealing with (3bet with anything decent?).
 
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Isn't that contradicting yourself? Odds are you will get a hands to call with - even A7, KQ etc. that's better than the average ATC he'll hold. Thus the strategy seems idiotic to me....

Fair comment, Complex. What I was thinking about was the type of situation I found myself in last night in a HU SnG. The villain was pretty poor and chips were at 1800/1200 in my favour. I took a horrible beat when they bluffed into my trip aces and hit their straight with turn and river cards. With 600 chips, the next six hands or so I got some great hole cards (something like 99, KJs, AT...) and shoved each time. My thinking was that they would have me on tilt and call light - they did, calling my AQs with K4o (K came on river!). Now, while there may have been a better way for me to play, my AIEH did have a logic behind it - I was feigning tilt and putting the decision on them.
 
Poker Orifice

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'Generally speaking', when HU vs. a maniac you want to be check-raising more often & be willing to call down lighter than typical.
 
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HU vs a maniac? You have to be pretty aggro and loose to be considered a manic in HU. If villain is shoving every hand preflop then call with any pair or an ace. That's if the effective stacks are 50bb or less which is usually the case when someone does this.

If villain is shoving a lot of flops then even bottom pair can be good enough for a call in a lot of cases.
 
CntryBoys

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I would say PATIENCE PATIENCE!!! I have played alot of those myself. The super agressive raise bet every hand type. I try to wait for a good hand and trap them. Just smooth calling instead of raising when i get a good hand and let them bet into me and hoping they will shove after they get called. I would say you played the hand correctly though with him playing the way he was playing i would have called with A 8 also.
 
BeaverTrump

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Wait nuts and kill here)))) You must play against maniaс with wide range of hands.... Use the knowledge as advantage
 
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