How should I play it?

WeenieSVK

WeenieSVK

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Total posts
843
Chips
0
You are in 6max ZOOM MTT, close to bubble (5-10minutes into bursting). blinds are 200/400 You have 12BB, your position is ITM at the moment. And you got AKo on UTG. Everybody at table have you covered.
Shove, raise or fold?
 
RCtheDabbler

RCtheDabbler

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Total posts
128
Chips
0
You have enough chips to get away from the hand if needed, i would call or straddle and hopefully see a flop against 1 or 2 players then see what options are after that. If someone raises you all in then you still have 10x BB to fold and not be committed to the pot.
 
daredeviljo

daredeviljo

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Total posts
1,407
Awards
1
Chips
6
If you are to only have 6 BB's after bubble:

Definitely a shove at this moment IMO. 5 opponents, calls are looser (eg. A rag etc.) Think about it, you cover every A and K hand. You cannot call because you cannot expect a definite raise, and usually when one calls, others call to improve value. If you feel that you can waste the 30 sec time banks and make it try that then allin. Regardless, you are playing to win the tournament. Why play to make it ITM only to make 1.5x the buyin. You can't do this every time.

10BBs:

First of all, in order for this to be possible you must be at the very edge of the bubble, considering ante as a factor (in zoom scenario). You may decide to fold and once ITM push any decent hand (easier to do so in Zoom).

Summary:

The problem is it's Zoom 6-max turbo: Blinds Eat You ALIVE!!! I would almost definitely shove allin because the 10BB scenario is so rare to find. Winning an allin gives you 26ish BB's being in a very comfortable position. I would take the comfortable position as I'd have a much greater chance of winning the tournament.
 
WeenieSVK

WeenieSVK

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Total posts
843
Chips
0
I am not playing tournament to mincash. BUT I also wouldnt call it playing to win with mindset "all or nothing". I play to get as far as possible in every tournament.

Back to that situation. I shoved, got call with 1010 and got eliminated. My opinion is that I made mistake there. I think I should:
- open with standard raise
- fold to reraise preflop.
- If missed flop check-fold
- If I hit then put chips in.

Simply because If I get reraised preflop I am just coinfliping many times in this spot or I am even worse against AA,KK. And the less coinflips the better.

If I raise and get call and miss I still have 10BB left (66% ?). If I raise get call and will hit, I will get on 16-26BB (33% ?). Or I can also steal blinds. I will get eliminated in minimum cases when we both will hit big hands.

If I shove preflop I will:
- steal blinds more often than by raise. But its not that big number.
- make double up. Considering calling ranges in this spot I wouldnt count more than 60% of the times when get 1 call.
- get eliminated 40% of the times when get 1 call.
- split in minimum cases.
 
Last edited:
daredeviljo

daredeviljo

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Total posts
1,407
Awards
1
Chips
6
I am not playing tournament to mincash. BUT I also wouldnt call it playing to win with mindset "all or nothing". I play to get as far as possible in every tournament.

Back to that situation. I shoved, got call with 1010 and got eliminated. My opinion is that I made mistake there. I think I should:
- open with standard raise
- fold to reraise preflop.
- If missed flop check-fold
- If I hit then put chips in.

Simply because If I get reraised preflop I am just coinfliping many times in this spot or I am even worse against AA,KK. And the less coinflips the better.

I would disagree plainly because if you were to standard raise you would be subjected to more calls (more value for the callers). With 3 or 4 people in the pot you are never sure you have the best hand. Standard raise would be 3/4BB (25/33% of your stack), therefore there is no value in the raise. If you did raise you may be blinded out depending on how big the bubble is. If you make the bubble you get min cash so that hand is a shove/fold scenario.

Also, a re-raise isn't an automatic coinflip. More times then not you'd find a re-raise with AQ,KQ etc. especially in late position. Lower pockets would most likely fold close to the bubble.

If I raise and get call and miss I still have 10BB left. If I raise get call and will hit, I will get on 16-26BB. Or I can also steal blinds sometimes. I will get eliminated in minimum cases when we both will hit big hands.

This is assuming only 1 caller and only a raise of 2BB, which isn't very likely. In bubble scenarios, people love to call the weaker opponent to bubble them so you could have probably expected 2 callers with 2BB's (even a raise of 3/4BBs).

If I shove preflop
- I will steal blinds most of the times.
- make double up. Considering calling ranges in this spot I wouldnt count more than 60-65% of the times when get call.
-get eliminated 35-40% of the times when get call.
-split in minimum cases.

Good points. This is true, but I believe your winning percentage is more like 70%+5% split. The only hands that potentially beat you are pockets (coinflip— with the exception of AA or KK which are neglectable) and lower connectors. These hands are rarities in 6max scenario.

More likely calls are A9+, K10+, or QJ, J10s, 109s
 
R

r3dt4rget

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Total posts
13
Chips
0
What are the stacks behind you? How much do they have you covered? That's a big factor right there. If you have 12 BB and everyone behind you has 25+, you are more likely to get called if you raise, or possibly even 3 bet. If you have similar stacks (12-20 BB) behind they are going to need very strong hands to call on the bubble.

Without knowing the stacks I would have shoved. You've got a few things going for you. 1. AK is the best non-paired hand. 2. It's the bubble, many people will fold JJ, QQ, AQ, and similar hands just to make it ITM. 3. You've got enough of a stack to make a pretty hard hit on average stacks if they call and lose.

You are flipping with pairs. You have all other aces and kings dominated. You just happened to get unlucky someone had a hand like TT behind you. A shove is profitable in that spot, because you've got fold equity, and most times players will have worse hands. You can't do the math simply based on winning %'s of hands. You are given more equity because of the situation.
 
B

beerzy

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2012
Total posts
110
Chips
0
Back to that situation. I shoved, got call with 1010 and got eliminated. My opinion is that I made mistake there. I think I should:
- open with standard raise
- fold to reraise preflop.
- If missed flop check-fold
- If I hit then put chips in.
oh god, no, please don't.

shove ainec, open folding is terrible, and if you're thinking about raise folding you shouldn't be playing poker, I mean not even pessagno would do that shit.
you want to shove to get called, and maybe raise to induce steals (ofc with the intention of calling) but that's more risky, if you knew that someone would apply pressure on you, than it would be better.
Also don't be results oriented.
 
T0mmmi

T0mmmi

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Total posts
152
Chips
0
AKos in the bubble > shove 99%

You are in 6max ZOOM MTT, close to bubble (5-10minutes into bursting). blinds are 200/400 You have 12BB, your position is ITM at the moment. And you got AKo on UTG. Everybody at table have you covered.
Shove, raise or fold?

You cant be scare.. this is poker and you have a premium hand ...no time to back off... Even if you got caller you are little favorite ...so no point of no shoving it. I would definitely shove and if I got against AA ..so be it.
 
horizon12

horizon12

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Total posts
4,126
Chips
0
12bb AK UTG this easy shove, raise this bad because out stack small and we be OPP most time,,,
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
Unless you have pretty good reasons to do otherwise, which doesn't seem to be the case, shove. If everyone folds, it's not a bad result. If someone calls wide because they have a huge stack and can afford to, you're favored against his range. The chance of running into kk+ is small. You may be called by the likes AQ, AJ and KQ; if so, you're a big favorite. And if you get called by an underpair, you're flipping for your tournament life. How bad is that with a 12bb stack?

Open-raising is bad because you don't have enough stack to fold to a 3bet, and if you just get called, you'll be OOP and will only flop a pair about 1/3 of the time. And some of those times, hands that would have called your shove will fold when you bet; e.g. AQ on a Kxx flop. Plus what are you going to do the 2/3 of the time when you miss the flop?

Folding pre- is awful. Not just card-wise but also because if you do that, you're not being honest with yourself when you say you play to win.
 
el_magiciann

el_magiciann

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Total posts
1,971
Chips
0
I'm in this period of my poker thinking when i'm not sure about these moments at poker, and i should clear it about myself first ;d, BUT for now i think its better to shove pre, you are right that this easily could be coinflip, but we should use our best chances at MTT tournaments, and this is looking like your one... I lost yesterday AQs<KQs shove pre (12bb) and i felt bad though i was favourite and read the hand well, so it will be always that question... and i think there is no right answer at all, if i find it out i would be glad to share with all of you! : )
 
trolaAa

trolaAa

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Total posts
274
Chips
0
with 12 bb u dont have much options ....cant fold ..shove is my option
 
ccocco

ccocco

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Total posts
460
Chips
0
then being with AK utg with having nearly 10 blind, according my understanding you should go allin, because if you stay subis apostas or less than half of your blind .. that eventually you eat the blinds. xq make a fold after the turn or river would be the same .. so I think it's all in. or fold before the flop.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

long winded rambler...
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Total posts
2,960
Awards
6
Chips
0
AK is a premium hand....but it needs to see 5 cards to realize it's "premium potential"

so shove and hope.

I'm not generally a fan of "preflop all in poker" but lately I've come to the conclusion that if you're equally happy to win the blinds or get called, then shoving is the right move; this is even more true on a short stack.
 
Top