how to play nuts on flop against 3 or more players?

WeenieSVK

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Title said it all :) Even if its not happening too often, I really have problem with this

Lets say for example you have 55 against 4 players and flop is 9 9 5 rainbow. You are on SB so first to act. Bet or give a free card? If bet how much?

I really cant get maximum from these type of hands or I am even losing them on turn/river. When I bet on flop, most of the times there is no or just a little interest. If I give a freecard someone with 910 will hit 10 on turn and I am fcked :D

So what is the most valueable play in this situation in your opinion?
 
jazzaxe

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The faster you act on this hand, the better. You are right about the board. The only interest you are getting is a pair of nines or a dubious 95 flop holding. You might push it in and get a call from a dummy with AA.
 
Michael Paler

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Title said it all :) Even if its not happening too often, I really have problem with this

Lets say for example you have 55 against 4 players and flop is 9 9 5 rainbow. You are on SB so first to act. Bet or give a free card? If bet how much?

I really cant get maximum from these type of hands or I am even losing them on turn/river. When I bet on flop, most of the times there is no or just a little interest. If I give a freecard someone with 910 will hit 10 on turn and I am fcked :D

So what is the most valueable play in this situation in your opinion?

It's hard, in the example you give, to get max value sometimes, for the reasons you already stated. Too little, they call and can suck out. Too much and they fold. What to do depends on so much...and you certainly do not want to play scared. It is a full, but the underfull. Really need more info. There really is no "one size fits all" answer here.

Is this a limped in pot?
If so and the BB shows strength at some point, did he check into flopping the 2nd nuts here (9-5)? Or, worse, the nuts (99)?
Did you call a raise from the SB?
Who raised preflop?
What is the opponents hand ranges?
Do they have you covered, or do you out stack them?
 
EvertonGirl

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I just lost with a similar hand to this:

I had 85o it was omaha, cant remember my other 2 cards. Flop comes 885. I was first to act so I bet half the pot and got 1 caller. Every time I was first to act I bet half the pot and he never raised me. I never put him on 88 but that was what he had :D
 
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DunningKruger

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^^ That's a lot of 8s in that deck.
 
EvertonGirl

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Lol I have only just noticed my mistake, hehe I had 55 not 85 :D

Brain fart, very common lol :D
 
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stebu94

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I just lost with a similar hand to this:

I had 85o it was omaha, cant remember my other 2 cards. Flop comes 885. I was first to act so I bet half the pot and got 1 caller. Every time I was first to act I bet half the pot and he never raised me. I never put him on 88 but that was what he had :D

In omaha it is completely different eg opponent would only have 8xxx on his hand he would still have very good chance of winning after flop. But he did not raise you at river either that is strange :D

But in texas I have the same problem as op. If bet too little or check opponents get freecard and hit and suckout. If bet too much everyone folds.
 
hobonc

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Title said it all :) Even if its not happening too often, I really have problem with this

Lets say for example you have 55 against 4 players and flop is 9 9 5 rainbow. You are on SB so first to act. Bet or give a free card? If bet how much?

I really cant get maximum from these type of hands or I am even losing them on turn/river. When I bet on flop, most of the times there is no or just a little interest. If I give a freecard someone with 910 will hit 10 on turn and I am fcked :D

So what is the most valueable play in this situation in your opinion?

In this particular example where you are holding the small end of a full house you should be betting to avoid runners making someone's hand.

Say your hole cards are KK and the flop is 99K, then you should allow villains to make their hand.
 
Mr Sandbag

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If it is a limped pot, you may want to start betting immediately because you're more likely to get at least one caller and it's more likely someone is holding a 9. If it is a raised pot with solid players, you may want to slowplay or bet small and let them catch up. Like someone said previously, it's possible someone will re-raise you for all your chips if they have an overpair.
 
naruto_miu

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Well in your example that's not the nuts TBH nuts would be (99), than it would be 95, than 55...So in your example best check for simple reason, that if the pot was all limped into, than the chances of someone actually thinking you might have J9o or 9x is really great (not to mention the fact that your in the SB)...Now all this really depends on the type of table your on...Yet I myself would realistically check to see what happens personally (just my 2 cents). Than start building on turn, but assuming you actually checked, and someone bets, and another player were to call, than I'd RR (because no one would actually think you'd have 55, but more than likely someone is holding 9x, thus they would stack off with you
 
doncaster

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In this particular example where you are holding the small end of a full house you should be betting to avoid runners making someone's hand.

Say your hole cards are KK and the flop is 99K, then you should allow villains to make their hand.

Sounds good except when I had 77 and flopped 778 and allowed the villain to make his hand... he had 69 and turned a straight flush !!!By ther way another player had AA and rivered an A to get a fullhouse and come 3rd in the hand .
 
hobonc

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Sounds good except when I had 77 and flopped 778 and allowed the villain to make his hand... he had 69 and turned a straight flush !!!By ther way another player had AA and rivered an A to get a fullhouse and come 3rd in the hand .

Ouch! It happens though. But how often does one make a straight flush? The likelihood of that happening is considerably less than someone bettering 5's over 9's.

At the casino I play at in Vegas that hand you lost would be a $30,000 winner.
 
hobonc

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Well in your example that's not the nuts TBH nuts would be (99), than it would be 95, than 55...So in your example best check for simple reason, that if the pot was all limped into, than the chances of someone actually thinking you might have J9o or 9x is really great (not to mention the fact that your in the SB)...Now all this really depends on the type of table your on...Yet I myself would realistically check to see what happens personally (just my 2 cents). Than start building on turn, but assuming you actually checked, and someone bets, and another player were to call, than I'd RR (because no one would actually think you'd have 55, but more than likely someone is holding 9x, thus they would stack off with you

I think a bet is better than a check here. You don't need to make it an all-in bet because all you will be doing is to chase off the marginal hands that hold over cards to your 5's. It won't take much on that board. Checking won't ever cause anyone to fold. Plus, if there are hands out there that have you beat, a bet is more likely to provoke them to reveal so in some way.
 
Mr Sandbag

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What's all this talk about betting to prevent others from drawing out on you? That's NOT why you'd bet.

Let's see - what are you afraid of?
Someone with a 9 making a full house: sorry, but if someone is holding a 9, they aren't going away. If the turn and river gives them the winning hand, you're going to lose a lot of chips. Plain and simple.

An overpair. Two points: 1. If you are so worried about someone hitting a 3 outer (3 because a 9 gives them the better FH also) that you would bet everyone out of a pot that is probably going to be yours anyway, don't even bother playing poker 2. These are the calls you WANT because they have hands that are in deep trouble. And a 3rd bonus point: if someone is holding a premium pair, depending on the player, you probably aren't betting them out of the hand anyway, and they may shove if you bet, which is what you want!

Worrying about anything else like a straight flush is outrageous because of the horrible odds of it hitting. If someone is chasing a straight flush, goodie for you!

Your decision to bet or check should be based on other circumstances and NOT on the fear of someone drawing out on your flopped monster.
 
_FISHFEET81_

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clearly bet, you don't want to give a free card. if villain has 9X hes not laying it down anyways, you're just giving them extra outs to perhaps catch the boat on later streets. Bet whatever you will get a call and even a 3 bet and then shuv obviously. and who knows you might get lucky and have a couple fish in the hand that will even ship it with QQ KK OR AA, but atleast you're getting your money in with a premium hand in the spot
 
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I usually bet 3 blinds to see how the opponents react. I don't like to wait for them to bet because it's risky and 1) your opponent/s can hit something better than you and win the pot or 2) they can check , check and check and so you missed a very good hand to win some money. You know how they say : "The sooner , the better".
 
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The way I play the nuts on the flop from every position is lead/bet if no one has taken a stab but I do this for quarter pot just to keep some floats in there. Then on the turn if I get any callers I go up to third pot and then half pot on the river. This is only if the player is calling you light so you want to get the maximum value. If players are reraising just call the flop and shove the turn. Absolute nuts just check until the river as most of the time you won't find many hands that will want to call your bets, but do bet the river to try to extract some value. Just gotta think "how do I get the most out of my hand?" Each situation is different so adjust accordingly.
 
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The faster you act on this hand, the better. You are right about the board. The only interest you are getting is a pair of nines or a dubious 95 flop holding. You might push it in and get a call from a dummy with AA.
 
hobonc

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What's all this talk about betting to prevent others from drawing out on you?
An overpair. Two points: 1. If you are so worried about someone hitting a 3 outer (3 because a 9 gives them the better FH also) that you would bet everyone out of a pot that is probably going to be yours anyway, don't even bother playing poker 2. These are the calls you WANT because they have hands that are in deep trouble. And a 3rd bonus point: if someone is holding a premium pair, depending on the player, you probably aren't betting them out of the hand anyway, and they may shove if you bet, which is what you want!

Worrying about anything else like a straight flush is outrageous because of the horrible odds of it hitting. If someone is chasing a straight flush, goodie for you!

Your decision to bet or check should be based on other circumstances and NOT on the fear of someone drawing out on your flopped monster.

I didn't mean for it to read this is the reason for betting, I meant that it would be a good side affect in tourney play in my opinion; as opposed to a check to allow others to catch a hand. Like I said, with higher pocket pairs it's a different story, but in tourney play, with that board, I really don't want three or four players drawing to a hand. I'd like to build the pot of course, and I don't want to give 3-4 players free cards, so bet here is what I'd do.
 
Mr Sandbag

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I didn't mean for it to read this is the reason for betting, I meant that it would be a good side affect in tourney play in my opinion; as opposed to a check to allow others to catch a hand. Like I said, with higher pocket pairs it's a different story, but in tourney play, with that board, I really don't want three or four players drawing to a hand. I'd like to build the pot of course, and I don't want to give 3-4 players free cards, so bet here is what I'd do.

For sure. I didn't say not to bet either. I just wanted to make sure the reasons for betting weren't bad. In a tournament especially, betting is the better option even for the simple fact that since most tournaments move fast, you cannot really afford to lose out on chips with a slowplay. You may want to put more thought into the size of your bet based on the opponents, but slowplaying can be a costly error.
 
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Did someone raise? Is the raiser likely to continuation-bet into so many callers? If the answer to both is yes, then checking is reasonable.

Otherwise I bet. I bet because I want their chips, not because I'm worried about their catching me.
 
stevenright

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you bet big anyways,... you will get calls with over pairs and a 9 there very often, you really can't be worried about someone sucking out on you every time.. you must go for value
 
WeenieSVK

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Thanks for your suggestions guys, it helped a lot. Regarding to some questions, this was just example of type of hand, it wasnt exact "real" hand which happened to me :) But similar hands sometimes happens and I had problem with them :)

Is this a limped in pot?
If so and the BB shows strength at some point, did he check into flopping the 2nd nuts here (9-5)? Or, worse, the nuts (99)?
Did you call a raise from the SB?
Who raised preflop?
What is the opponents hand ranges?
Do they have you covered, or do you out stack them?

lets say it was limped preflop so nobody raised, I have average stack on table
 
Beanfacekilla

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In this particular example where you are holding the small end of a full house you should be betting to avoid runners making someone's hand.

Say your hole cards are KK and the flop is 99K, then you should allow villains to make their hand.

+1.

In any spot where you have the small part of a boat (9-9-5; with 5-5, T-T-8; with 8-8, etc.), you should play it fast. full pot bets (IMVHO). you will get action from overpairs and hands like 9-x, maybe even a rare A-5, and FDs. A good spot to be in....

If everyone folds, no one had anything at all, and you got max value.
 
EvertonGirl

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In omaha it is completely different eg opponent would only have 8xxx on his hand he would still have very good chance of winning after flop. But he did not raise you at river either that is strange :D

But in texas I have the same problem as op. If bet too little or check opponents get freecard and hit and suckout. If bet too much everyone folds.

Yea it is very strange, he obviously did not want me to believe he had quads and probably would of known that if he did re-raise then I would of folded, meaning less chips for him. He played that very well!

I have the same issue, don't bet enough and you get too many callers and bet too much they all fold lol. I still tend to bet small tho and see what the flop brings.
 
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