How to play against someone who overshoves a lot?

oriole

oriole

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I just recently had a tournament where one player had a tendency to overshove(3x, 4x, 5x pot) on a lot of turns and rivers. I ended up battling against him in heads-up and I was struggling to make good decisions.

The few times he got called, he had a very good hand, but it was very unlikely that he had a monster every time he shoved. I obviously can't afford to wait for nuts and try to trap him in a tournament where we have 20-40 big blinds, so how do you play against someone like that?
 
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pietpikel

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I just recently had a tournament where one player had a tendency to overshove(3x, 4x, 5x pot) on a lot of turns and rivers. I ended up battling against him in heads-up and I was struggling to make good decisions.

The few times he got called, he had a very good hand, but it was very unlikely that he had a monster every time he shoved. I obviously can't afford to wait for nuts and try to trap him in a tournament where we have 20-40 big blinds, so how do you play against someone like that?
Tournament play is kind of strange. There is a weird element of luck in every tournament. Which table you sit at, who is at the table, where you are seated etc etc. A lot of times you land up at a table that does not suite your style of play. You have to adjust accordingly.

In poker (and in life in my opinion), you have to be doing what the majority are not doing. It is slightly contrarian, but you almost need to swim against the tide.

When the game is loose, you need to be tight. When everyone is calling you need to be folding. When they are all folding, you need to be raising. When they adjust to your style you need to change gears, either slowing down or speeding up.

When someone is aggressive, you need to double down on the patience, find a rock starting hand and then commit to it.

You have a few options with a loose player like this in a tournament. If it is really early, just fold. It costs you nothing and hopefully someone knocks him out. If you want to take him on, then fold like a laundromat worker, and wait for a big hand. Then give him rope and let him dangle himself.
 
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peeetiee

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Hy!
I play freerolls mostly and there are a lot of players like that.
U have to be patient. Have patience, patience, patience.
Wait for the right position, that is almost as impotant as the cards and then go for it.
I sometimes have to wait for 3 complete rounds, but in the end I always get these sukkkers, if no one else does.
Wait, be patient......
By
 
AgentXtreme

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Patience is the key here , play it tight , you will loose few BBs but when you will win , you gonna hit hard and even double up and more
 
thatguy6793

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You gotta have the right amount of patience and cheap pots to let some off your moderate hands turn into big hands on the flop. If you get the chance to play suited connectors or suited aces you can usually turn them into a big winning hand if you hit something against these players. The best strategy I found with these guys is to slow play everything and get them to give you as much money as possible when you have the nuts (usually three of a kind will do it). If you don't feel comfortable slow playing them, shove immediately after the flop and try to scare them away. Key thing to remember is that you cant bluff them with an overpair so if you don't have anything just count our loses and move on and wait for a better hand.
 
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karl coakley

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The way you play against someone that shoves a lot is to pick your spots and call.

Playing this kind of poker is actually well founded in math. You are most of the time 60/40 in a hand. That is pretty close to even. If I'm the dog every hand you are only going to win 10 more pots than me out of 100. Usually to make this call better players are going to want a premium hand to put their tournament life (or huge chunk of their chips) on the line. These just don't come along that often. A lot of hands that beat you are in the muck. It really narrows the range you are getting called with.

When I learned poker I was taught to play this way when you get short handed towards the end of a tournament. Usually the blinds are big, the antes are big, so there is a lot in the pot. The idea was not to take down the pot as much as to not get outplayed. If you are playing against players better than you, this is the ideal strategy. Rather than get outplayed by a better player and let them grind you down with smaller pots, use the math to your favor and gamble with them.
 
oriole

oriole

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The way you play against someone that shoves a lot is to pick your spots and call.

Playing this kind of poker is actually well founded in math. You are most of the time 60/40 in a hand. That is pretty close to even. If I'm the dog every hand you are only going to win 10 more pots than me out of 100. Usually to make this call better players are going to want a premium hand to put their tournament life (or huge chunk of their chips) on the line. These just don't come along that often. A lot of hands that beat you are in the muck. It really narrows the range you are getting called with.

When I learned poker I was taught to play this way when you get short handed towards the end of a tournament. Usually the blinds are big, the antes are big, so there is a lot in the pot. The idea was not to take down the pot as much as to not get outplayed. If you are playing against players better than you, this is the ideal strategy. Rather than get outplayed by a better player and let them grind you down with smaller pots, use the math to your favor and gamble with them.
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense.
 
Sil3ntness

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Tournaments you have to be a lot more aggressive. Winning blinds and antes is a huge tool in a tournament player's arsenal. Building a big stack will help you when you get heads up in the tournament. If you are playing against a maniac, like the others said above, you have to pick your spots and realize that semi premium hands are like the NUTS vs someone that raises and jams lightly.
 
BionicApe

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Yeah, table dynamics will often dictate how you respond to this sort of play, but I'd say in general this type of player is extremely susceptible to being trapped.

Any sort of obviously imbalanced play such as this is usually exploitable, but you might need to wait until the table dynamics change, or even a table change, before you can find yourself positioned to take advantage.

This sort of player also really needs to have position on you to take advantage of any perceived weakness in your post-flop game, much riskier to donk jam than jam over a checked turn.

Consider the stage of the tournament, early game overbets are often a legit attempt to extract value because it's the only way to get all the money in the pot.

Honestly, mid-game overbets are probably just a bad habit, but it might be worth considering that even with bad habits a person can be a very astute post-flop player. Your opponent might just be a better post-flop player than you and it may take some work figuring out how to adapt to their playstyle while you continue to learn and become better as you go.

You need to be committed to using your bluff catchers at the right time, you might get it wrong, but there's nothing wrong with a little demonstration if you're not going out of your way to make a bad play.

Don't be stubborn, though, be flexible, observant, patient and smart. Watch closely how the player interacts with the other players and try to get a read, especially where you observe similarities and differences with your own play.

A lot of the power of this playstyle revolves around the denial of fold equity while simultaneously denying drawing odds. If possible try to predict and preclude those turn bets with check-raising the flop all-in both for value and with your good draws (only at the appropriate time of course -- both stack and board dependent).

Whatever happens in a particular hand, knowing the likelihood of how events may unfold is hugely advantageous for you. Predict and plan, stick to the plan.

Be prepared to fold a lot rather than make marginal calls for dubious gains.

I nothing else, you almost always have real equity and you're going to be forced to use it against this player at some point. Try to make it as favorable as possible and cowboy-up.
 
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Diegol

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Be patience and also try to open your call range against this kind of players mostly in dry boards
 
CullinanPoker

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Id say tighten up. I know its hard with only 20 or so bigs heads up, but have faith in the poker gods. Once you nip him once, he'll think twice about over betting pots.
 
BionicApe

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This sort of player just has to be overplaying their mid strength hands a lot of the time, yeah, decent bluff-catchers should be good relatively frequently. Also, think about donk-betting to mess with his program, he's gonna wanna play back so be prepared to go big.

Also, AK. Turning top-top into a bluff catcher can just destroy this type of player.
 
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figure out what's his range is:
1. If he playes lets say 15% of hands on overbets on bords like with face cards your safe bets is play suited connectors agains him... maybe small pairs for set value
2. if he playes something like 50+% of hands, value call the hell out of him as he is defending second/top pairs with weak kickers (be adviced, sometimes in his 50+% range he will have that TPTK agains you TP weak kicker)
 
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Dear
oriole, I think you should explore, according to your article, game with 5 or less opponents, and heads-up theory, to practice it and I think the decision will come. Personally, I was helped Spin-n-go tournaments, where only three of us. When I broke the inside of the barrier tied the game with good prizes - ratio of my profit grew, and I began to feel confident. Against the aggressor suggest re-raising and all ins, try to teach him a lesson, as shown by my practice, after overflowing its stack to me, aggression is lost), and if there is, believe it had tilt) With respect! Good luck!
 
schtiuky

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In freerolls is a common scenario. Just avoid tilt and let go sb.bb if he overbets and you dont feel confortable. Last night i lost 5 bb to a guy and he went All in for a 6 time. I had TT and i calld he had 8Jo. I double keep it calm and reach money with his help. 0.33 $ earnins for a hand.
 
schtiuky

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I had also negative experience got AQs he went all in i call he had 84o. He won and i waz out of tournamemt and tilt for the hole evening. But that s life.
 
damgold

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I would expect good cards bos and when they came i would bet everything.
 
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yeah dude if your losing to a guy that does that re raise him all in on his hopefull gutter cards when u got great cards don't wait a server serves
 
terryk

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Always have the feeling of `acting`,,,,not `reacting`,,,,wait for a good hand and shove back.Yes,sometimes villain has the goods,,,but if you don`t,your at his mercy.:cool:
 
Darsno

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Man, very well said. I literally have nothing to add. I think Pietpikel has made the first perfect reply I`ve seen in a poker forum. Kudos, bro!
 
swannymojo

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The main thing I'd say is tighten up preflop. Especially when he is behind you in a tourney. This will make your decisions on later streets much easier vs. having a hand like j10 on a jack high dry board and facing an all in.

Sounds like he was a pretty good laggy player who was playing both his cards and your percieved range very very aggresively.

This is probably old news to you but thats at least my initial default in game adjustment when facing the afore-mentioned opponent style.
 
najjah166

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The tournament game is quite strange. There is a strange element of luck in every tournament. At what table you sit, who is at the table where you sit, etc. Often you land at a table that does not fit your playing style. You must adapt accordingly.

In poker (and in life in my opinion), you must do what the majority does not. This is slightly contrarian, but you almost have to swim against the current.

When the game is loose, you need to be tightened. When everyone calls, you must fold. When they fold all you have to be on the rise.When fit your style, you need to change gears, slowing or accelerating.

When someone is aggressive, you have to be extra patient, find a perfect starting hand, then you hire them.

You have a few options with a loose player like this in a tournament. If it is really early, you fold. It costs you nothing and I hope somebody knocks him out. If you want to take, then lie down like a laundry worker and wait for a big hand. Then give him a rope and let it swing.
I like your strategy I find it great, it's very good advice for me also annoys me before these players that raise all the time, I am often left to make me look like a fish, but I will use your method, thank you for advice
 
neverbluff

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If they are doing it very often, they are probably betting too much on the turn/river. You can take advantage of that by check/raising with your strong made hands and your draws. Or you can wait for a better spot preflop and shove allin if you are < 20 BB. These guys are annoying to play against, but eventually someone will call them down with a stronger hand. It's a great strategy at the small stakes because players tends to fold too often.
 
pancho_1954

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It is difficult to play against players like that, many times you have to wait for a stroke of good luck, sometimes I try to have a lot of patience and I wait for a good hand to try to take away chips, but in the case of the HU I try to play differently, so that that player can not see a kind of pattern in my game form,
 
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