How to feel after losing early in a tournament.

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johnsulliv

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So recently I finished a freeroll on 888,
The 5.50.big fish sub-sat.

I managed to win the next sattelite and grabbed the ticket to the big fish 5.50.

I knocked myself out the tournament fairly early with T-8 (off suit) middle position.

Someone limped in before me, I called, 2 calls after me by players that had me covered
Flop was 7-T-4
Everyone checks to me
I raised fairly strong 3/4 pot
Player after me calls and two others fold
Turn 7-T-4-7
I feel good that the man callings is not any further ahead than me so rather foolishly shove (to try and take the pot, thinking I still had some fold equity).
The player calls. 8-9(off suit)
River come 7-T-4-7-6
Gutted.

Happy to hear any and all thoughts regarding this hand, I was not doing so bad, had an average stack.

Normally I'd fold T-8.
I think I was trying to force a win.

Looking forward to making my way back to the same game.
 
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25thinfantryman

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its a debby downer forsure
 
Norman Vasquez

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So recently I finished a freeroll on 888,
The 5.50.big fish sub-sat.

I managed to win the next sattelite and grabbed the ticket to the big fish 5.50.

I knocked myself out the tournament fairly early with T-8 (off suit) middle position.

Someone limped in before me, I called, 2 calls after me by players that had me covered
Flop was 7-T-4
Everyone checks to me
I raised fairly strong 3/4 pot
Player after me calls and two others fold
Turn 7-T-4-7
I feel good that the man callings is not any further ahead than me so rather foolishly shove (to try and take the pot, thinking I still had some fold equity).
The player calls. 8-9(off suit)
River come 7-T-4-7-6
Gutted.

Happy to hear any and all thoughts regarding this hand, I was not doing so bad, had an average stack.

Normally I'd fold T-8.
I think I was trying to force a win.

Looking forward to making my way back to the same game.





Definitely you have showdown value with top pair, so I think it was best to just check on river, hoping he checks back. You are not getting any value from a shove, all players you are beating will obviously fold a shove, and you will get call by players that have you beat.

Anyway you just lost a tournament, and you are going to lose more than you win in poker, so just learn from mistakes and play the next one
 
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myquickwit

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I think your hand is too weak to shove all in there but it's better to bust early than it its to bust on the bubble. Nothing worse than playing for 4 hours and being the bubble boy
 
LA PokerKush

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So recently I finished a freeroll on 888,
The 5.50.big fish sub-sat.

I managed to win the next sattelite and grabbed the ticket to the big fish 5.50.

I knocked myself out the tournament fairly early with T-8 (off suit) middle position.

Someone limped in before me, I called, 2 calls after me by players that had me covered
Flop was 7-T-4
Everyone checks to me
I raised fairly strong 3/4 pot
Player after me calls and two others fold
Turn 7-T-4-7
I feel good that the man callings is not any further ahead than me so rather foolishly shove (to try and take the pot, thinking I still had some fold equity).
The player calls. 8-9(off suit)
River come 7-T-4-7-6
Gutted.

Happy to hear any and all thoughts regarding this hand, I was not doing so bad, had an average stack.

Normally I'd fold T-8.
I think I was trying to force a win.

Looking forward to making my way back to the same game.
Nasty river. Live and learn, right? So if you enter with a weak hand preflop, just proceed with caution post-flop. You said you usually fold this hand, so proceed with caution. It's just a theoretical approach, if you start with the lower end of your range preflop, you're probably not gonna improve in further streets, mathematically speaking. You were an average stack and playing good, so be a little more patient and pick better spots.
Now for your defense, there could have been other nuances or metagame that you picked up on, a betting tell or have a history with the players, and you went for the attack. You actually were ahead when he called on the turn so without being results-oriented, you made the right move and he got lucky.

Good luck on the next one!
 
Pokersolomdp

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Poker

I think on the turn and could be missing with 777, and on the river with 6'd have to fold if your opponent bets you all one !!
 
jadaminato

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Try to focus on the quality of your game rather than the results. So, if you lose early, ask yourself: did I make the right move or made a mistake? If you played well, then look ahead and keep it up, poker is like that. If you made a mistake, work on improving it and also look forward, trying to do better the next time.

In that specific case I think it was not a good hand to see the flop. But since you did, maybe you should have been more cautious. A smaller bet on the flop would have given the same results. Then, in the turn, there were many hands that dominated you, especially when that other seven appeared. So I think the shove was unnecessary.
 
frnandoh

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When you are in a multiway pot, most times a top pair might be a weak hand. Play it but carefully.
 
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praevus

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Sometimes I feel bad but I try to learn with that.
I think in early stage and at middle position T-8 is not a good hand to play. Obviously that sometimes that is a good call but most of times you only win without showdown and at early stages probably someone call you.
I think that you have play better hands and sometimes hands with a better position.
 
kowrip

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I wouldn't put my tournament life on the line with top pair / weak kicker against 3 other opponents. The chances are too big that one of them makes a better hand. Even against a single opponent, a standard turn bet would have probably been better.
 
JBGoode

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Well in general if I bust out of a tournament early, I'm a lot happier then if I spend 6 hours a bubble it....

Secondly, playing T8o from MP is a mistake. Even in a limped pot... I can understand playing T8s in a limped pot, but not T8o.... and even if I desided to play T8s, I'm not just limping along, I'm raising to try and get position, but not giving the players behind me odds to call.... by just calling you have over half the table still to play behind you, giving everyone after you great odds to come along.... and even then, if they are good, will still be playing hands that have better equity then a T8o in a multiway pot....

Along with that, this is the exsact board to give you the exsample on why you dont play it.... once that second T came you werent folding, and there is soooooooo much that still beats you, but you are ahead of so much of a limper range I cant see where you could find a fold....

If you just let it go pre, you wouldnt have been in this spot....
 
Poker Orifice

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I 100% agree with JBGoode

Also, I'd suggest posting some of your hands in the tournament hand analysis section, looking for feedback. I believe it'd be beneficial to you, to others who are posting and reading the HH thread & to the Cardschat forum in general (they can always use more strategy/analysis threads on here ... especially as opposed to the "I'm the unluckiest". "it's rigged".. "there's patterns" sort of useless stuff.

How I feel about an outcome of a hand is irrelevant. How I feel about how I played it is important to a degree BUT if I feel I've made a mistake on a hand during a tournament, I will consider marking it for review later but I will do my best to not beat myself at the time for the mistake I've made as it won't be helping my future decision-making process in that tournament (or others I may be playing at the same time).

Something else to consider...when we make a bet, call, raise... ask ourselves 'WHY?' What are we hoping to achieve.
Another tip... >>> Always think ahead.
 
Sean Pilgrim

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I knocked myself out the tournament fairly early with T-8 (off suit) middle position.

Yeah man, just fold pre, T8o is no where to be found in opening ranges from MP.

Only ranges that include T8o are:
40-100BB Button & SB open/fold to 3bet
20BB SB Limp/Fold vs BB
15BB SB Limp/Call 3x Raise but fold facing all in vs BB
10BB SB Open Jam vs BB

Just need to get your hands on some good hand range charts that you can study.
 
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johnsulliv

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Nasty river. Live and learn, right? So if you enter with a weak hand preflop, just proceed with caution post-flop. You said you usually fold this hand, so proceed with caution. It's just a theoretical approach, if you start with the lower end of your range preflop, you're probably not gonna improve in further streets, mathematically speaking. You were an average stack and playing good, so be a little more patient and pick better spots.
Now for your defense, there could have been other nuances or metagame that you picked up on, a betting tell or have a history with the players, and you went for the attack. You actually were ahead when he called on the turn so without being results-oriented, you made the right move and he got lucky.

Good luck on the next one!



Amazing reply, thank you for your time, your quite correct about most of what you wrote.

If I am honest, I knew they were on a draw and recognise that it would have been a draw that whereas my hand could be beaten by so many other hands.

I almost felt like I was trying to scare them with my shove, an emotional response because of previous hands and chips already lost, definitely a tilted play.

Live and learn
:)
 
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johnsulliv

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I think on the turn and could be missing with 777, and on the river with 6'd have to fold if your opponent bets you all one !!


Your right, I had very little chance of improving against a wide range of hands that had me beat.

Thank you for your time.
:)
 
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johnsulliv

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Try to focus on the quality of your game rather than the results. So, if you lose early, ask yourself: did I make the right move or made a mistake? If you played well, then look ahead and keep it up, poker is like that. If you made a mistake, work on improving it and also look forward, trying to do better the next time.

In that specific case I think it was not a good hand to see the flop. But since you did, maybe you should have been more cautious. A smaller bet on the flop would have given the same results. Then, in the turn, there were many hands that dominated you, especially when that other seven appeared. So I think the shove was unnecessary.


This is all true, I was having a hard time feeling for the current dynamic of the table, there was no logic behind my move to shove.

Thank you so much for your time
:)
 
Mundug

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if you play tight not early busted. So tried to tight play lets go.
 
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johnsulliv

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I wouldn't put my tournament life on the line with top pair / weak kicker against 3 other opponents. The chances are too big that one of them makes a better hand. Even against a single opponent, a standard turn bet would have probably been better.


Very good advice, I agree with you.

Thank you for your time.
 
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johnsulliv

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Well in general if I bust out of a tournament early, I'm a lot happier then if I spend 6 hours a bubble it....

Secondly, playing T8o from MP is a mistake. Even in a limped pot... I can understand playing T8s in a limped pot, but not T8o.... and even if I desided to play T8s, I'm not just limping along, I'm raising to try and get position, but not giving the players behind me odds to call.... by just calling you have over half the table still to play behind you, giving everyone after you great odds to come along.... and even then, if they are good, will still be playing hands that have better equity then a T8o in a multiway pot....

Along with that, this is the exsact board to give you the exsample on why you dont play it.... once that second T came you werent folding, and there is soooooooo much that still beats you, but you are ahead of so much of a limper range I cant see where you could find a fold....

If you just let it go pre, you wouldnt have been in this spot....



Your not wrong, thank you for pointing out to me about ranges, there was many many hands left to beat me pre and post flop, epically running over the turn and river cards, as you say, there was little of no chance of making a fold.
An easy fold for me next time, without a doubt.

Thank you for your time.
 
J

johnsulliv

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I 100% agree with JBGoode

Also, I'd suggest posting some of your hands in the tournament hand analysis section, looking for feedback. I believe it'd be beneficial to you, to others who are posting and reading the HH thread & to the Cardschat forum in general (they can always use more strategy/analysis threads on here ... especially as opposed to the "I'm the unluckiest". "it's rigged".. "there's patterns" sort of useless stuff.

How I feel about an outcome of a hand is irrelevant. How I feel about how I played it is important to a degree BUT if I feel I've made a mistake on a hand during a tournament, I will consider marking it for review later but I will do my best to not beat myself at the time for the mistake I've made as it won't be helping my future decision-making process in that tournament (or others I may be playing at the same time).

Something else to consider...when we make a bet, call, raise... ask ourselves 'WHY?' What are we hoping to achieve.
Another tip... >>> Always think ahead.


Thank you for replying, it is indeed a very disciplined game.

In the future I may end up posting hands, but most probably of twee big hands I win, to perhaps find fault in those or learn something extra about possible strengths of mine that I'd like to focus on.

Thank you for your time.
 
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johnsulliv

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Yeah man, just fold pre, T8o is no where to be found in opening ranges from MP.

Only ranges that include T8o are:
40-100BB Button & SB open/fold to 3bet
20BB SB Limp/Fold vs BB
15BB SB Limp/Call 3x Raise but fold facing all in vs BB
10BB SB Open Jam vs BB

Just need to get your hands on some good hand range charts that you can study.


Part of me I reason, was working on a possible weakness of my opponents range, I believe what let me down most was my interpretation of my flop, vs. There range vs how likely I was to win..... The answer being very likely in many scenarios.
Ranges are great guidelines and perhaps I should tighten up my knowledge of them and their effectiveness.

Thank you for your time.
 
JBGoode

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I 100% agree with JBGoode

Also, I'd suggest posting some of your hands in the tournament hand analysis section, looking for feedback. I believe it'd be beneficial to you, to others who are posting and reading the HH thread & to the Cardschat forum in general (they can always use more strategy/analysis threads on here ... especially as opposed to the "I'm the unluckiest". "it's rigged".. "there's patterns" sort of useless stuff.

How I feel about an outcome of a hand is irrelevant. How I feel about how I played it is important to a degree BUT if I feel I've made a mistake on a hand during a tournament, I will consider marking it for review later but I will do my best to not beat myself at the time for the mistake I've made as it won't be helping my future decision-making process in that tournament (or others I may be playing at the same time).

Something else to consider...when we make a bet, call, raise... ask ourselves 'WHY?' What are we hoping to achieve.
Another tip... >>> Always think ahead.
I like the way you think, we should study together sometime. Send me a message if your interested.
 
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You should not even have seen the flop to begin with, and if you did, the turn is a check, since you now effectively have second pair with a bad kicker. He probably made a bad call with his draw, but you need to look at your own decisions and focus on those.

Also as others have said, post hands like this in the hand review section, and post the actual hand history, so that we know stack sizes, exact positions etc. Then you can get a lot of usefull advice from forum members.
 
Vallet

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You made a big bet on the flop to knock your opponents out of the pot, but one called. I take a big pause on the turn in such cases and think about the opponent's cards. Maybe the kicker isn't strong enough. Swap places with your opponent and ask yourself. With what cards would you continue to deal 3/4 of the pot on such a flop?
 
J

johnsulliv

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You should not even have seen the flop to begin with, and if you did, the turn is a check, since you now effectively have second pair with a bad kicker. He probably made a bad call with his draw, but you need to look at your own decisions and focus on those.

Also as others have said, post hands like this in the hand review section, and post the actual hand history, so that we know stack sizes, exact positions etc. Then you can get a lot of usefull advice from forum members.


I'm currently only using my phone to play, if I make progress on pokerstars I'll be sure to share some of my most interesting hands.

However, what you say nails it right on the head.

Thank you for your time.
:)
 
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