How do you play against terrible live players?

Played a live tourney today with a terrible structure (5000 chips, 15 min doubling blinds).

It wasn't even poker anymore. It was just a bunch of idiots calling raises with anything and everything. I raised from 400 to 1200 with AK. Two callers. Flop comes 4 6 6. One guy bets 3500 (half his chips) another guy calls him all in. I fold. First guy flips T9o and the caller flips T7o.

How do you play against such ridiculous behavior? I busted out with KK against an A7o eventually (same T7o idiot too). It's not like I could wait them out with premium hands either because the blinds go up too quickly. It felt like a game of roulette.

Kekule said:

How do you play against such ridiculous behavior? I busted out with KK against an A7o eventually (same T7o idiot too). It's not like I could wait them out with premium hands either because the blinds go up too quickly. It felt like a game of roulette.

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These players only play with their own hands. They cannot see beyond that. So just make value bets. bluffing is never a good strategy since they do not fold

I think, "TAG with tricks" is the best strategy here. After some number of hands, fishes become VERY sensitive to tight players, so you can rarely trick them by stealing blinds etc.

Find better tournaments to play in But seriously, overbet a lot, put their stack at risk a lot, play tighter but bigger. Learn to embrace variance as games like these will have a lot of it.

Have to apply ABC poker to them.

Dont ever try to do exhibition like good bluffs because they dont understand at all.

Just play plain TA and bet hard as possible.

There's this similar place in my hometown.

Buy in: 25 bucks
5,000 in starting chips
blinds start at 25/50 and double every 10 minutes.

Final table everyone will have like 2 big blinds because they are 16,000/32,000

I hated it at first. But then I just got used to the structure and how to crush it. After all, a huge part of poker is adapting to the players and structure.

I'd say just play your strong hands aggressively and don't bluff much at all. People that stupid will get it all in with anything. Just make sure you're doing it with a hand. It's basically constant flips.

GL

Nit i swear , Nit i was beat by terrible players live, online i crush them .. you can't make a single bluff because they can call with 27 on a bord like AKT52

thats the most of the players that i play against in my freerolls, and everywhere i read, i see the same, not bluff.

this is easy money if you can be patient and take a few bad beats, tight is right

Yes, there are a lot of bad players in poker, but so it is interesting. Without bad players, poker would be very hard and boring. Just be patient

With the fast blinds you will have to take some chances and be all in some pots vs these guys without the stone cold nuts . Try and play TAG poker and make sure and get value when you do make a hand . You cant really be bluffing/making moves vs people who never fold !

Well you can start by not playing tournaments with horrible structures. They make the structure available to you, just ask the floor. I played MTT's 3-5 times a week against players like this for a few years and generally my strategy was tight and aggressive with the occasional outrageous move, and most people here would agree with me.

You left out way too much information for anyone to actually give you a tangible response. I'll just assume you had a starting stack of 5,000 chips. At that point you would have had a 12.5 big blind stack. If the level was 200/400, you could have increased your stack size by 12% without seeing a flop. If you were conscious of how short your two opponents were, why open for 3x? Obviously your going to brick the flop more often than not and then be stuck in no mans land.

If you don't know how to adjust against "bad players" then you may want to look in the mirror.

Karozi615 said:

Well you can start by not playing tournaments with horrible structures. They make the structure available to you, just ask the floor. I played MTT's 3-5 times a week against players like this for a few years and generally my strategy was tight and aggressive with the occasional outrageous move, and most people here would agree with me.

You left out way too much information for anyone to actually give you a tangible response. I'll just assume you had a starting stack of 5,000 chips. At that point you would have had a 12.5 big blind stack. If the level was 200/400, you could have increased your stack size by 12% without seeing a flop. If you were conscious of how short your two opponents were, why open for 3x? Obviously your going to brick the flop more often than not and then be stuck in no mans land.

If you don't know how to adjust against "bad players" then you may want to look in the mirror.

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Your advice is bad and you should feel bad. If everyone followed your advice then by the time the 200/400 blinds hit, everyone would be shoving all in preflop. Shoving is the right strategy when short stacked preflop, but that was not the case here.

I wasn't asking for advice either. I was simply wondering how YOU personally played against such players and in such tourney structures.

These players were terri-bad. One guy, who was nearly 90 years old, shoved with TT on a board of QJ52. The river comes an 8 and he flips his cards over and says, "Straight! Yes!" Then he became befuddled and confused when the dealer shoved the pot over to the other terri-bad player who called with T9o on the turn. I felt bad for the old guy.

I was pretty shocked at how bad the live players were too. Like 8 to a flop in ring at the dog track. I played a tourney at the hard rock and cashed too 100 dollar buy in and people were calling all in on the turn with flush draws. It was like pokerstars play money lol.

Kekule said:

Your advice is bad and you should feel bad. If everyone followed your advice then by the time the 200/400 blinds hit, everyone would be shoving all in preflop. Shoving is the right strategy when short stacked preflop, but that was not the case here.
...Their advice was solid. Low buy-in, bad structured tournaments play like this. Also, you did leave out stack sizes in your first post. So, if we assume your stack is 5K, then you should be shoving AK for 12.5BBs. That's solid advice.

I wasn't asking for advice either. I was simply wondering how YOU personally played against such players and in such tourney structures.
...How is this not asking for advice? Better yet, how were we supposed to know what you meant when you asked "How do you play against terrible live players?" I mean, it does sound like you're asking for advice right?

These players were terri-bad. One guy, who was nearly 90 years old, shoved with TT on a board of QJ52. The river comes an 8 and he flips his cards over and says, "Straight! Yes!" Then he became befuddled and confused when the dealer shoved the pot over to the other terri-bad player who called with T9o on the turn. I felt bad for the old guy.
...Wow, a 90 year old player misreads his hand/board and a player with an OESD calls and wins. Wow, such terri-bad players. The struggle is real.

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above.

and lol at complaining about bad players. Or do you expect everyone to play great poker/how you want them to play?

Jrbobdobbs64 said:

I was pretty shocked at how bad the live players were too. Like 8 to a flop in ring at the dog track. I played a tourney at the hard rock and cashed too 100 dollar buy in and people were calling all in on the turn with flush draws. It was like pokerstars play money lol.

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Hahaha Once some player it the poker club call my all-in on the river on the board TQQ55 with just 22, I had AQ

I'd love to play live, maybe even in the wsop someday. I never have though.

The best option - to sit out first before they will kill each other

philthy said:

above.

and lol at complaining about bad players. Or do you expect everyone to play great poker/how you want them to play?

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I know, I thought it was reasonable. Never said shipping 5,000 chips would be optimal, but in terms of "tournament life" it's totally fine. Personally, I would have opened for 2-2.4x against the players he described, and perhaps that was the tweak he was looking for?

The OP's initial rant was grossly oversimplified and lacking important variables, so actually it is impossible for any of us to try and analyze the hand, lol.

So to the OP who said "I'm wrong and I should feel bad"

(Assuming you did have 5,000 chips)
YOU OPENED FOR 24% of YOUR STACK AGAINST 2 LOOSE PASSIVES WITH A HAND THAT MISSES THE FLOP MORE THAN 70% OF THE TIME. LEARN ABOUT WHAT "TOURNAMENT LIFE" MEANS AND WHY ICM AND MAXIMIZING FOLD EQUITY IS SO IMPORTANT IN MTT'S PARTICULARLY WITH DRAWING HANDS SUCH AS AK.

YOU PLAYED IT WRONG.

Play fold/raise calling is bad cuz there is always someone who will put all in
And dnt bluff cuz they will call for sure

Some of you are missing the point. I didn't include details such as stack sizes and whatnot because I wasn't asking for advice on how to play the hand.

Also, since you don't know the details and intricacies, you really have no position to say my play was bad or good. I can tell you that more than half of my table were very loose and passive. Had I shoved all in preflop I would have certainly been called just as likely as if I had raised 3x the big (like I did). As you said, AK is still a drawing hand. Why is the hell would I shove all in, knowing I would be called by a wide range of hands anyways. The better option was to 3x raise, see a flop and re-evaluate then.

Lastly, the "your advice is bad and you should feel bad" comment was more of a reference to Futurama than any thing else. I was merely jesting at the fact that I wasn't really asking for advice in the first place. I know how I played, I know how to play against poor players, I consistently win at $1/2 live, and I was just wondering how other players personally played against these riffraff players.

So, please...no need for anyone to take offense.

Kekule said:

Some of you are missing the point. I didn't include details such as stack sizes and whatnot because I wasn't asking for advice on how to play the hand.
...Well, then make your intentions clear in your first post. Asking a question in poker strategy section of the forum is going to be viewed as asking for advice.

Also, since you don't know the details and intricacies, you really have no position to say my play was bad or good.
...While it is true that we can't determine if your play was bad or good without key details, you still didn't make it clear in your first post of what exactly you were looking for. So, I guess you're just as at fault as those trying to give as best advice as they could with the information given.

And why are you so against receiving advice from other players? Or are you that good where you never make a mistakes?

I can tell you that more than half of my table were very loose and passive. Had I shoved all in preflop I would have certainly been called just as likely as if I had raised 3x the big (like I did). As you said, AK is still a drawing hand. Why is the hell would I shove all in, knowing I would be called by a wide range of hands anyways. The better option was to 3x raise, see a flop and re-evaluate then.
...Well, since you haven't provided the key information and, as I am understanding, you don't want to, I cannot say if raising 3x BB with AK is better or worse than than shoving AK. Honestly, it would really depend on effective stack sizes. In some cases shoving is better and in others, especially if you know you're getting called by wide range of hands. In other situations, standard raising is better.

Lastly, the "your advice is bad and you should feel bad" comment was more of a reference to Futurama than any thing else. I was merely jesting at the fact that I wasn't really asking for advice in the first place. I know how I played, I know how to play against poor players, I consistently win at $1/2 live, and I was just wondering how other players personally played against these riffraff players.
...Again, make your intentions clear in your first post to avoid any confusion. You know how you played, but do you know if your made the correct decisions?

I can answer your last question in a single sentence: It depends.

I could go into more specifics, you don't care about providing detail and you aren't asking for advice, so what does it matter?

So, please...no need for anyone to take offense.

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Above.

in ur story you said you Rx4bb and that made it a 3 handed game...that seems normal. them bluffing you off ur Ace high tells me they know u are tight AND that they put you on AK or AQ or huge paint, but not a pair and they knew you would fold...ur game sounds good to me. blinds go up for a reason so you don't sit around and wait for AA or KK. some days ur going to be running really well and other times AA won't hold up to 27o. Variance is the reason the fish stay in the game and keep making bad decisions.

My personal preference is to play lots of flops, only raise pre-flop with the premiums (aces, kings, queens) and make those raises super large. Depending on chip stack I think A-K hand should've been a shove but not going to worry much about one hand. My summary is limp and min raise often. I'd want to see a ton of flops.

loosen your range of hands that you play really strongly, and push the action anytime you have one of those hands. SO if your strong range is like AA-JJ AK AQ then just open it up to AA-88 AT+ and go hard once you have those hands. You can also limp into plenty of pots early when the blinds are small and try to outflop people early on, but typically these live events play really fast, so there isn't alot of time for that.

But yes, the structure dictates how you may have to play or how the game is likely to play. So don't be suprised when players are going nuts, they are there for fun, and it's a fun type structure which gives really bad players a good shot at winning. So our edge is less, but we can still make plenty of money in these games, you just gotta not spew chips for no reason, and pick your time to just throw everything in the middle with decent hands. I'm not advocating blinding down here, but just loosen your top range for every stack size, and when you make a move, make it a strong one so you can take the pot without showdown, or you will be vs 1-2 players at the most, this alone gives us a much better chance than trying to get cute and outplay people postflop with small stack sizes.

the cool thing about how these play is once you get close to the money, usually people tend to start playing tight thinking it's "smart" or whatever, in that time you can really just open up the aggression and take blinds at will (not all games, but most of them this is what happens)...