How do you handle a Monster hand early in a MONSTER Buy-in MTT?

vegasjj

vegasjj

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Say you are in a very special very high buy-in MTT
You get real early a monster hand - say AA
You make a strong stand and you get strong resistance, you get to flop - no improvement for you - do c-bet - get re-raised.. this is just one possible situation... my general question is - do you push with a monster early in the hand - maybe preflop - or give-up under pressure - so to do not risk tourney life?

How do you handle a monster hand early in a HUGE MTT?
 
No Brainer

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The only difference from a small buyin MTT should be the players you are playing against, not the way you play any hands. In a large buying tournament you can give your opponents different ranges than in say a freeroll as you can assume they at least kind of know what they are doing, at least until you get some reads on them. The way your hand plays should depend on this range that you have assigned to your opponent and should not depend on the size/importance of the tournament.
 
vegasjj

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The only difference from a small buyin MTT should be the players you are playing against, not the way you play any hands. In a large buying tournament you can give your opponents different ranges than in say a freeroll as you can assume they at least kind of know what they are doing, at least until you get some reads on them. The way your hand plays should depend on this range that you have assigned to your opponent and should not depend on the size/importance of the tournament.

I totally agree in principle - but my "fear" of getting some poker God magically deliver a bad beat on me - is way stronger. To be honest - getting KO'd out early - while playing correct - is not going to make me feel any better. I rather play poorly (over conservative, at least early in the game) then be sitting on the rail. Would that not be a fair attitude?
And if yes, how do I accomplish that?
 
No Brainer

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I recently watched a Q&A with Daniel Negreanu where he asked what are your intentions and are your actions lining up with your intentions? He also suggested looking at the big goal and working backwards.

Before this big important tournament you need to ask yourself what is your intention for the tournament? Is it to win, cash, just play for as long as possible, play well or something else? Then when you sit down at the tournament you need to ensure your actions at the table are lining up with your intention. You can also ask yourself this whenever you enter a hand, are my actions in this hand lining up with the intention I set earlier today?

This way you can ensure that the fear of getting knocked out does not interfere with the way you are playing as you know what you have set out to do.
 
S3mper

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The above advice is only +EV of you have +EV intentions. :D

As the above says - You just need to play your best poker regardless of how big or important the MTT or buy in is to you.

I'm assuming you won entry into the tournament since we shouldn't be playing in tournaments that are so far above our BRM that we are afraid of losing.
Also just a note 'usually' if we can't afford to be playing in a tournament we probably can't afford to be playing in the satellite either but this usually depends.

I've been KO'd of important tournaments early, mid stages and even on the bubble. Some of the tournaments may even have been pretty big for me (6 figure score).
We can't play not to lose we have to play to win and the size or importance of the game shouldn't even be in our minds (Easier said then done I know)

The only exception to this would be a scenario like The Big game where your up 100k and then I would recommend folding anything lol.
 
10058765

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I do get where vegas comes from.
Say for example, you're used to playing penny-games with just a few dollars on top and all of sudden get a ticket for a high-staked game, I can imagine you'ld do a killing for a mincash and trying to ladder-up from there.

Still, you have to chip up and take calculated risks.
Though, pushing pre is insane if you're deepstacked.
However, with low blinds, getting reraised on a tricky board you should be able to get rid of your AA.
It really depends on the board and your position how to continue (assuming you have no reads yet).
 
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Fear has never won any tourney ever. You want 1 caller at most. shove it immediately. When you lose with AA at least you didnt waste 2 or 3 hours of your time to get blinded out or having to shove poor hands at a later time. Aggressive players go deep, timid players min cash at most.
 
rawbad

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its hard to resist pushing but I always look at people at table are they going allin a lot or being conservative so it depends on the players on the table your playing
 
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hffjd2000

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Preflop, yes. Im be happy to put all my chips on the middle.

Postflop, have to be careful and evaluate things.
 
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you have to remember if you have AA it's not a guarantee that you will win that hand and cash out from it.
In life/live/online tournaments AA get cracked so many time's, that good player know how to proceed and play with caution.
If you hit and you (thin) have better hand, then push it and try to get most of it, if not I would recommend to toss it away and live for another round, or push all in and bluff it, if you're lucky enough.....
 
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Lots of losing in mtt...if you can't handle that find a new game
 
S3mper

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Lots of losing in mtt...if you can't handle that find a new game

I don't think OP's concern is losing in MTT's. This was sort of an unnecessary post. Maybe you just misread OP though :eek:
 
vegasjj

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I don't think OP's concern is losing in MTT's. This was sort of an unnecessary post. Maybe you just misread OP though :eek:

lol u got that right I am an expert at losing and all MTT players better be!

My question was as many of you DID understand very specific.

I typically play MTT's up to say around $10 BI - but had won a sat to SCOOP event #45 - BI = $109 - and really did not want to use my loser expertise ESPECIALLY not early.

Somehow I did accomplish that - and I finished 430th place of ocer 22k starters for a $730 reward :D
Many thanks to all who posted a meaningful answer.
 
Sil3ntness

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Fear has never won any tourney ever. You want 1 caller at most. shove it immediately. When you lose with AA at least you didnt waste 2 or 3 hours of your time to get blinded out or having to shove poor hands at a later time. Aggressive players go deep, timid players min cash at most.

As I my boy Meek Millz once said: "Scared money don't make no money."

OP if you are playing a high buy in MTT just play at the top of your ability. What would you do in this same situation if it was a freeroll? All of your decisions should be EV+ oriented (well in this case ICM+ and not altered because of the buyin amount.

Just don't go broke with only one pair at the beginning of the high stakes MTT.
 
10058765

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I don't understand comments like open jamming pre with AA.
I only do that sometimes in freerolls or micros when I'm about 100 % sure I will get called.
In a $109 tournament (yes I understood what vegas was referring to) you're not open jamming when deepstacked.
It'll most probably result in picking up 1.5 blinds.....is that what you're looking for when you get a premium ?

On a sidenote, congrats vegas....great job and a very nice cash....
Personally though, in that last hand I would've 3-bet pre instead of flatting with JJ.
As played however I would have check-folded the flop
 
hulinada

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The following three tips are key to successful early and middle phase play:
Avoid playing and losing big pots with marginal to weak hands.
Go for big pots if you are lucky enough to hit a good hand. Bet or raise big.
Try to win big pots with small investments in speculative hands.
 
vegasjj

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On a sidenote, congrats vegas....great job and a very nice cash....
Thank you very much!

Personally though, in that last hand I would've 3-bet pre instead of flatting with JJ.
As played however I would have check-folded the flop
I really did "agonize" over the very same choices - some previous history made me pick what I did and of course I regret it deeply. The first choice was what you suggest - I talked myself into what I did... Have to go with first instinct... I guess that is an other good rule.

Thanks for your thoughts - appreciate it
 
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You have to play your aces. Any 2 random cards have a 35 percent chance of beating your aces, even 7 2. I say shove and don't give numerous opponents a chance to get in on a hand that you should have taken down.
 
ViresIntus

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Sometimes its just better to fold and not be tempted. Of course if it is AA, nothing wrong with doubling the BB. Play it safe though and only bet three times the amount and see what the flop is. If its safe from flushs and straights then you have a good chance of doubling up if you decide to shove.
 
Sil3ntness

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You have to play your aces. Any 2 random cards have a 35 percent chance of beating your aces, even 7 2. I say shove and don't give numerous opponents a chance to get in on a hand that you should have taken down.

Shoving AA in a "Monster buy in event" probably will not get you many calls in the first level of a MTT. I'd be wary of someone shoving 100+ BBs openly in a $10k event.
 
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zcorrell0326

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You have to play your aces. Any 2 random cards have a 35 percent chance of beating your aces, even 7 2. I say shove and don't give numerous opponents a chance to get in on a hand that you should have taken down.

35%? I think you have your math wrong or you are quoting a bad source. This is just from memory so don't quote me on exact percentages, but I think it's like a 32% chance of winning against a full 10 person table that stays in until the end. Your odds of winning against ONE person with two random cards is like 85% I think. So this is bad information you have and are giving.
 
eidikos

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you should play it as always
in such a tournament players are better and you can understand better the plays
so you can put him in a range pre flop like kk qq jj ak
post flop you must see if there is a good card for him like k q j
if there is a board with small cards you can shove
in another situation try to pot control
 
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AA in first hand in a high tier tournament is a viable all in?

Ok, i know what u guys must think, looking at the numbers, AA has every chance to get the pot, but for me its not as good as AA in a 3er hand or so on..
I was playing a 33usd tournament, and got kicked in first hand cause of someone went with 9-10 and hitted a straight right in the flop..

So, what do u guys do when u got the AA in first hand in a tourney.

see ya
 
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There should be no reason to fold this hand preflop first hand of any tournament.
 
lukaszkrzi

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I would take the small risk because it will make your chances to hit final table much bigger.
 
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