How do you deal with being severely card-dead?

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Russian_Californian

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Todays tourney was just so merciless on me. Basically I almost didn't have any playable hands throughout the whole tourney. When I had been dealt a decent hand, I would end up missing the flop, I would fire a cbet, and a villain would reraise me all-in, so I would have to fold... Gradually my stack diminished and then I blinded out.
What do you guys do in such kind of situation?
 
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Russian_Californian

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I didn't really blind out at the end but finally I caught a hand (KK) being less than 10BB deep, shoved all in preflop, ended up getting called by an Ace-rag, an Ace-rag caught an Ace on the flop, so I went bust :)
 
12551255

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It happens. Sometimes to fight off boredom I'll open another table and play a few hands.
 
freeringo

freeringo

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you need to open up your game my friend
poker is more fun that way
 
horizon12

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You can not do anything, you have to wait when your stack will be less than 15bb.
Then you can start more push/fold to be able to double your stack ( the smaller your stack then with wider range hands you need shove ), also you need more steals blinds....
 
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Russian_Californian

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freeringo, thanks man... but.. there's a problem with opening up :)
I tried that a couple of times throughout the tourney, I genuinely did. But it didn't work out well :)
Let me replicate a hand that I played. Having been card-dead for significant period of time already, I finally decided to give it a shot and raise with a relatively marginal holding, which was 78 of spades. I raised strong enough, that was a 4BB raise. BB reraised me to 12BB, and then I started thinking, what do I do?
If I 4bet, most likely he's gonna go all in, and it's gonna be a gamble, where odds are, I believe, are not in my favor.
If I call, most frequently I'm gonna completely miss flop or only catch a weak part of it, which will make the further decision tough. If I bet, what do I do if get raised? Pretty much, I have to fold.
The only occasion on which I really can get paid is if I hit the flop hard, which happens rarely, and speculative hands are... well.. those folks are very loose, they will basically just keep calling with AK no matter what and then win with a high card.
 
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Russian_Californian

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horizon12, what range would you recommend for a push below 15BB?
 
alittlepoker

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When its like that about the only thing you can do is play some hands you dont normally play you just cant set and wait for the good hands widen your game and hope for the best
 
veltins

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move all ins with any suited connctors when under 15bbs.. just dnt wait to be blinded out when getting Card dead for Long time
 
DonV73

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It's not easy but I think the best is to stay with your game and be patient. I know, easier said than done :)
 
ringworm

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You don't need cards when you're properly playing position. I'd rather have a 4-7 in late position than a A-J under the gun. Find opportunities to get in lots of pots in late position and use your sense of timing and feel to take down the pots. You don't want to blindly bluff at everything, but late position offers much more frequent opportunities to semi-bluff at pots, bet with bottom pair, and raise with something as week as middle pair.
 
Michael Paler

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freeringo, thanks man... but.. there's a problem with opening up :)
I tried that a couple of times throughout the tourney, I genuinely did. But it didn't work out well :)
Let me replicate a hand that I played. Having been card-dead for significant period of time already, I finally decided to give it a shot and raise with a relatively marginal holding, which was 78 of spades. I raised strong enough, that was a 4BB raise. BB reraised me to 12BB, and then I started thinking, what do I do?
If I 4bet, most likely he's gonna go all in, and it's gonna be a gamble, where odds are, I believe, are not in my favor.
If I call, most frequently I'm gonna completely miss flop or only catch a weak part of it, which will make the further decision tough. If I bet, what do I do if get raised? Pretty much, I have to fold.
The only occasion on which I really can get paid is if I hit the flop hard, which happens rarely, and speculative hands are... well.. those folks are very loose, they will basically just keep calling with AK no matter what and then win with a high card.

Whoa! This line alone lets me know what (maybe) some of your problems are.....ok, repeat after me..."Hi. My name is Russian-California, and I am a NIT."

1. You are sizing your bets per hand strength, real or (in this case) perceived. Means you most likely open for more with AA than with say, k10. BIG mistake. If you only open for 2-2.5x no matter what, they will have no clue when u have AA or 66 or 27 off. Watch for others who also make this mistake. Many will open for 5x with any small pair, hoping to get everyone to fold. Overcards hit and they are going to fold to any bet, spewing chips along the way.

2. The days of the 3x-up open is dead. It just wastes too many chips. Sure, in the beginning of the tourney 3x is ok, but you will still waste chips. If you are short, you can only do it with hands you are willing to get it all in with when raised.

3. You cannot fold to every re-raise. And they know you are short stacked, and will do so relentlessly. If 78 suited was the best I have seen and I'm at 15 bigs, depending on position and the size of stacks yet to act, I'm shoving preflop. You cannot wait for AA/KK all day, as you can see it does not always win. A big stack with A rag will certainly call, and also, if he has a big stack and acts after you (and watching you fold to every 3 bet), he could put you all in with far worse hands than 78 suited.

3. Some people have a "call, call, call" syndrome. You have a "fold, fold, fold" syndrome. You need to find the line to tow. 78 suited is a monster in many cases. But you doubt it, and just keep folding. Just remember one thing - the best hand preflop/flop/turn does not always win. I have beat AA/KK with far worse hands. I have also lost with my AA/KK to far worse hands. I have beat guys with AK with my A-rag, and vice versa.

4. Observe your opponents. Guys who are always 3 and 4 betting are doing so with very wide ranges. Would you take 78 suited over J-rag off? 10-2 suited? I would. Chances are they are just bullying you off every hand.

To wrap it up, sounds like the story you were telling the table is "I'm a super-duper-NIT, please raise me so I can fold. Thanks." There has to come a time, in every poker players games, where you make a bet, a call, whatever - and end up at a showdown with nothing and still win. In other words, you have to take some risks before you get short stacked, or you will never make it far.

I would also seriously think about improving my short stack game. There is an entire strategy just for being short stacked, and you need to learn it. If you have an iphone, try the "insta-poker trainer" App; for a few $$ (2.99?) you can download the "short stack strategies" pack. Or search here, the web, anyplace. Remember, NITs can go far, but it's almost impossible to win waiting on cards that A. might never hit you or B. not hold up once you finally get them.

Playing the NIT style is fine to start, but if you cannot get chips with marginal hands, you are not a good player nor will be. True pros can make a big stack with marginal hands.
 
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cogath

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That is something I see happen frequently enough in fifty50s; a tight player folding lots until finally they get AQ or KK or some nice hand like that and shove it all in. But their stack is so small by now that they get called by far worse. What happens next is a flip.

Maybe not so much in MTTs where you have such a large field but in SNGs where you have some players that you know to be regulars, sometimes it's good to make a loose call or shove when you're short-stacked. If you lose it's like an investment for the next time you meet them. Or you might win!
 
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you yell at the computer to give you some better cards. That's what i do, but it doesn't tend to work.

I've had the same problem, and there are days where that is exactly how it happens and there isn't anything you can do about it. so you get short stacked and have to try and flip with something far less than optimal to get to something reasonable.

I run into it all the time, and I'm not just playing premiums.I can go through several orbits where by best preflop hand is something like q5o, or get a marginably okay hand with an all-in and a call already behind me. Gotta be patient. and in the meantime do yourself a favor since you aren't playing many hands. mark each guy and what he or she is playing with... you have the time, might as well get as much as you can on the specifics.
 
R

Russian_Californian

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Thank you for your dead honest feedback, guys. It is much appreciated.
Michael Paler, thanks a lot for writing such a big post and pinpointing my leaks. That was very insightful and entertaining (not devoid of humor) to read.
What I got is that I have to implement opening with more speculative hands from favorable positions. I understand the meaning of position, and I adhere to it, but my adherance is still relatively nitty, since, for instance, a marginal hand, which can be open-raised in position, in my opinion, is something like KQo.
I will try to widen my game and try opening suited connectors, and, maybe some suited one gappers from position. I will see how it goes.
As for reraising shoves with suited connectors, I still see that as a non-equitable move, ever since those hands have their value from implied odds, and hands such as flushes or straights don't come often if they ever come. Any overpair that a villan might catch and you pretty much go bust....
I might dare raising with an open-ended straight draw sometimes... If I know the villain will be inclined towards folding, but I'm not sure if I can call a reshove with an open-ended straight draw, since I believe 8 outs is really not enough especially given the presence of overcards or given the likelihood of appearance of overcards instead of our targeted cards...
 
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I used to get really short when it came to the middle/ late part of a tournament until I started really taking HUD and proportionality seriously. Start raising nearly ATC on the button if folded to, and 3 betting more light to LP steal, given their players in front/behind you have a set criteria. You don't need to always be right, and you might get played back against, but in a tournament, being a nit will almost never get you a FT. Middle/late tourney play is 70% stealing blinds from players who are not calling correctly.

Stats and player huds are key, know what boards to raise and what boards to give up on.

Hope this is of some help :)
 
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11012015

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Such situations are inevitable. Get used.:)
 
PapaC

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I have sit and folded for a long time in many MTT. Early in the game it's not bad but late in it, I would just have to try and make something happen, or blind out. I think going out with a fight is better than blinding out, but you never know if you wait to the last minute, you might catch a hand that will double you up. When I played one of the big MTT on Carbon, I gave up with my last 10,000 chips, and just went all in ahead of the BB. I will never do that again. I will wait for that one last chance.
 
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trixie

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Everyone has been in this situation, it's pretty common. When this happens, I try to look for players I can play. The passive ones. The ones that fold to almost any all in bet. If you can isolate their limping with a raise in position, then your golden until you draw a decent hand. Try your best not to make it to a showdown though. You don't want anyone else seeing your trash hands. But it's pretty effective. Just don't get discouraged. Everyone runs bad every once in a while.
 
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