How do you approach second pairs

If the board flops K-9-3 and you have say 9-8 and you are first to act with three others in the pot how do you approach the table.

Do you bet to try to push others off( 1/2 pot, 1/4, pot size bet?)

Do you check to see others actions?

If you check and someone bets do you three bet?

Would love to hear your input.

Boston10111 said:

If the board flops K-9-3 and you have say 9-8 and you are first to act with three others in the pot how do you approach the table.

Do you bet to try to push others off( 1/2 pot, 1/4, pot size bet?)

Do you check to see others actions?

If you check and someone bets do you three bet?

Would love to hear your input.

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if you have more than one opponent and there is a K on the flop in this case it is prudent to check but remember that each opponent has a different psychology and behavior and you have to concentrate because there is players who blah and profite when all players check and so it's a good idea to do the same when you realize that your opponents are not aggressive and are suspicious good luck

I think that what happened pre-flop is an important factor, as well as the size of your stack. Texture of flop matters too - if it’s rainbow it’s one thing, but if you have a flush draw, then it’s quite another. I’m assuming it’s rainbow in my post.

If you raised pre-flop, continuing with measured aggression could be prudent (like maybe 1/2 pot bet) but I would fold to any kind of raise as that shows that they have a high pair or more. If there was a 3-bet or more preflop (assuming it wasn’t you that did it), checking would be reasonable and fold to any action. If table has been playing tight, then a probe bet at 1/3 pot is worth throwing out and see how others respond. But if there are some aggressive players, then I’d save my chips and check/fold to whatever happens.

I would advise to simply approach them with caution if anyone else has shown aggression, since many Kings+ are probably in their range. If it was raised I probably don't see this flop.


Limped of course it's easier to represent the king, but it's also easier for your opponent to have K-rag/Kx in a limped pot.
I think i almost never donk-bet this unless my opponents are weak/tight, etc. Then again are they limping in?
Check call many times and see where it goes, unless something tells me not to. Check/Fold is more than acceptable as well.


Edit: Why would I 3-bet into 3 other players, and a player who has obviously shown interest in the pot?

What hands would I fold with a 3 bet?

Which hands would I get value from with a 3 bet?


I feel like the answer is "all the wrong hands" because Kings aren't folding, and maybe straight draws and worse are.
Maybe a weak king folds in a limped pot. That's your only win with a 3bet I feel like

Multiway and out of position its typically fine to just check with intention to give up. To much risk someone else is already ahead, or they will get their later.

Master Bedroom said:

I would advise to simply approach them with caution if anyone else has shown aggression, since many Kings+ are probably in their range. If it was raised I probably don't see this flop.


Limped of course it's easier to represent the king, but it's also easier for your opponent to have K-rag/Kx in a limped pot.
I think i almost never donk-bet this unless my opponents are weak/tight, etc. Then again are they limping in?
Check call many times and see where it goes, unless something tells me not to. Check/Fold is more than acceptable as well.


Edit: Why would I 3-bet into 3 other players, and a player who has obviously shown interest in the pot?

What hands would I fold with a 3 bet?

Which hands would I get value from with a 3 bet?


I feel like the answer is "all the wrong hands" because Kings aren't folding, and maybe straight draws and worse are.
Maybe a weak king folds in a limped pot. That's your only win with a 3bet I feel like

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Makes a good point that I should have mentioned in my first response. If this was raised pre-flop, I would have folded and not even see the flop. I don’t even think I’d limp in from EP with this hand as I hate playing out of position, and would not feel good about doing so with a weak hand. Only way I see this flop is if everyone limped to me in the BB pre-flop. In which case, what I wrote earlier holds...

I'd bet there. Even if someone has the K, it often stops them from betting as hard, and you'll probably get a chance to see the turn at least. A little birdy told me that anyway
Same thoughts with a donk bet in 1st position.

When you start betting heavily on this board you are basically turning your equity into a bluff. This is why you need to thing ahead; if he calls, what do you do on the turn; if he shoves all-in, do you fold?

I play hands like these by betting 1 BB because this will make bad hands fold and the opponent with the K would normally raise 2 BB, I know it's a weird method but it works for me most of the time.

if you have enough chips, you can try to play aggressively and make a bet, but everything, as always, depends on the stage of the tournament and the number of chips and aggression of the players at the table !!!

in general against 3 opponent I prefer chek and call while waiting to improve my hand. especially if I do not have a lot of information about my opponents.

Well, the most extreme example of this situation is when you have JJ or QQ or KK and an ace appears on the flop. I always put my opponent on at least AK in these situations, and so I often flop, unless I have position, and it's checked to me. Then I will bet.

To Bluff or Not to Bluff?

fickleberry said:

When you start betting heavily on this board you are basically turning your equity into a bluff. This is why you need to thing ahead; if he calls, what do you do on the turn; if he shoves all-in, do you fold?

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100% agree.

DizzyDeb717 said:

I'd bet there. Even if someone has the K, it often stops them from betting as hard, and you'll probably get a chance to see the turn at least. A little birdy told me that anyway
Same thoughts with a donk bet in 1st position.

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If betting here we are instantly making a decision to take this down with no less than a double barrel.
If the 3 other players all limped in - we might be safe assuming none of them have a strong King, but it's likely at least one of them has a King.
So we are saying we have a strong King by betting here, or possibly a set.
If our assumption is wrong and we get 3bet (say 3x our initial bet) what do we do? What if after that - another 4x re-raises? Easy fold in that spot.
Leading isn't the worst thing here - but - we have to bet appropriately and are either bluffing with a double barrel saying our imaginary King is stronger than anyone elses, our set beats everyone, or we are hoping to improve to something that beats top pair strong kicker.
If we miss on the turn - we check - we are bet into? fold, call or re-raise?

Mohamed reda bouzzroud said:

I play hands like these by betting 1 BB because this will make bad hands fold and the opponent with the K would normally raise 2 BB, I know it's a weird method but it works for me most of the time.

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You and 500,000 other players use this weak move. It is 100% telling what you are holding and allows your opponents to play mistake free poker against you.
Only about 0.05% of min-betters can resist increasing the bet size when you have a better hand. If you can resist this temptation and min-bet even your strongest hands - you may be able to disguise your stronger hands well, although I have doubts.
No disrespect, just pointing out this is a weak overall strategy.
How do you react to 4x raises every time you min-donk-bet?

I would here played a check-call, call did would if will a small rate, if one opponent will make rate and the other will make call, then'll fold maps, with A9 can be was to try play, but 89 here look bad not very strongly, the second couple of course well, but weak kicker all taints. In general, check-call for a small bet, fold if after the bet 2 opponents remain in the game.

Boston10111 said:

If the board flops K-9-3 and you have say 9-8 and you are first to act with three others in the pot how do you approach the table.

Do you bet to try to push others off( 1/2 pot, 1/4, pot size bet?)

Do you check to see others actions?

If you check and someone bets do you three bet?

Would love to hear your input.

Click to expand...

with 98 i assume your are in the blinds. so out of Position, multiway with a K high flop I would not donk bet mid pair with no kicker.
there is no Need to build a pot and chances are high that anyone has a K or 8 with a better kicker and calls/reraises.
just c/c depending on the bet size.

Mohamed reda bouzzroud said:

I play hands like these by betting 1 BB because this will make bad hands fold and the opponent with the K would normally raise 2 BB, I know it's a weird method but it works for me most of the time.

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the idea of a blocker/feeler bet is fine. you invest a small amout to get an idea where you stand. but 1bb could look really weak if the pot size is >10bb. so I'd rather bet in % than in bb. 10-25% should be an okay sizing.
those bets also work fine as a semi-bluff when you are on a draw

it depends on a various of factors. its like im repeating but, your position, stack, how the table is playing, the stack of others. but usually i keep control of the pot. trying to keep small as possible. try to get your hand to improve. be on the safe side.

This is a super easy spot actually....

In general we should almost always check 2nd pair. With that said, this being multiway, makes it even easier to play....

We are OOP, with meny to act. We check....

Now if there is a bet, then a call, and then action to us. It's an easy fold....

If there is a bet, action to us, it's an easy call to see the turn....

I'm never check raising in this spot, nor am I calling 1 if the bet came late, we call, then a check raise....

I play it carefully, you can check it, but I think it is dangerous to rearrange it, because the hand A 9, A 10, they hit, I see no reason!

nameless1537 said:

I think that what happened pre-flop is an important factor, as well as the size of your stack. Texture of flop matters too - if it’s rainbow it’s one thing, but if you have a flush draw, then it’s quite another. I’m assuming it’s rainbow in my post.

If you raised pre-flop, continuing with measured aggression could be prudent (like maybe 1/2 pot bet) but I would fold to any kind of raise as that shows that they have a high pair or more. If there was a 3-bet or more preflop (assuming it wasn’t you that did it), checking would be reasonable and fold to any action. If table has been playing tight, then a probe bet at 1/3 pot is worth throwing out and see how others respond. But if there are some aggressive players, then I’d save my chips and check/fold to whatever happens.

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I really dont think it's that deep here.... we have middle pair, and we are OOP against 3 players....

I'll ask you, if you bet, then get raised, what is your plan regaurdless if you have the 9 high draw or not? You still lose to a better flush, if the board pairs your done.... that's not including getting bet by a K....

Could they be raising as a bluffing? Doubtful, it's too multiway. Not saying it never happens, but regaurdless we can find a better spot the play for a large amount of chips....

Same goes for it being a limped pot or opened. Why bloat it if its limped? Same rules apply.

2nd pair

From personal experience, a second pair can be powerful. I can also lose my bank if not careful. If I see a possible straight or flush on the flop, I am wary of the way to approach. If it's a rainbow, I am going to be very aggressive.

fundiver199 said:

Multiway and out of position its typically fine to just check with intention to give up. To much risk someone else is already ahead, or they will get their later.

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I'm never folding IF Vil bets, it folds to me, and I close the action....

Not sure I'm folding even if I'm not closing the action....

I am folding if there is a bet, a call, then my action.

DizzyDeb717 said:

I'd bet there. Even if someone has the K, it often stops them from betting as hard, and you'll probably get a chance to see the turn at least. A little birdy told me that anyway
Same thoughts with a donk bet in 1st position.

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Never.... once you bet, you never realize your equity after you get called.... what's your plan for the turn? Gotta Double Barrel right? Cause if you check the turn, they bet, what are you gonna do? Call, then check fold rivers? Or just fold the turn?

fickleberry said:

When you start betting heavily on this board you are basically turning your equity into a bluff. This is why you need to thing ahead; if he calls, what do you do on the turn; if he shoves all-in, do you fold?

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Love it!!!!

0546474 said:

if you have enough chips, you can try to play aggressively and make a bet, but everything, as always, depends on the stage of the tournament and the number of chips and aggression of the players at the table !!!

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Has nothing to do with ICM.... simple fundamental strategy. CHECK MIDDLE PAIR OOP...