How to deal with late stage in micro tournaments?

NeoBandit · Dec 17, 2019

I play Micro tournaments because that is my level at this time. I have no problem being patient with people and waiting for my spots to get good hands. I have pretty much mastered that and can get itm in a tournament. It is after itm that i am having a problem with the players raising really high and going all in. I just finished a $2.20 and won $5.50 because watching these players betting really high and going all in all the time drives me crazy. You don't know if they have a good hand or not. the BB was 4000 these guys Top 15 in this game there where 3 of us at the table would bet 35000 and just go up from there. My problem here is that watching these guys do this drives me nuts and I go on tilt. I know that i need to tighten up at this time and only play premium hands because of them doing this. But It drives me crazy to see these guys this and getting bigger and bigger stacks while my either stays the same or slowly get smaller. If i can get over this somehow I could get to the final table. I have gotten over some of the problems causing me not to get into late stages of the game and now i need help to get over this. How do you guys deal with watching these guys do this and what do you do to not be driven crazy by this. I often have to throw hands away like 10 10 because these guys put me all in and I don't want to risk it. but after a while it drives me to take foolish risks that i shouldn't Any advice for overcoming this. thanks guys

fundiver199 · Dec 17, 2019

When stacks get short in tournaments, and there is ICM-pressure, all-in become a very powerfull move. Rather than getting "crazy" by watching other players push, you should study and learn, where maybe you have to push yourself, so that you are putting the pressure on them. Of course there are player, who push with way to deep stacks, and against them you should mostly just let them have it and let someone else walk into the line of fire.

I dont know, if this apply to you, but I see many players, who are simply to risk averse. Even when they get very short, they still refuse to put their tournament live on the line and try to limp or mini-raise, when they should either push or fold. I literally walk over these players, and so does everyone else, who understand, how tournaments are supposed to be played.

To put it short, to win you need to be willing to die, when odds are in your favour. And yes it sucks to jam A5 from BTN with 13BB and get snapped by someone in the blinds, who woke up with KK. But you are still going to win 1/3 of the time, and much more often he fold, and you just increased your stack 20% uncontested.

Criminal Bizzy · Dec 17, 2019

Well it sounds like you are playing to tight. Maybe take a look at your opening range and start to ask yourself if you are really playing them often enough. Another thing is that you should be open raising more often than trying to limp in. In the early stages of a tournament its more acceptable to limp in to see a flop but as the tournament progresses you should be charging to let others see the flop.

Don't be afraid to call. If you are playing with 20 BB or more then you have some wiggle room and depending on how many blinds you are past 20 in your chip stack you should be playing more hands. Another thing to consider is that if you are playing 10 BB or less then really you should just be looking to double up, shove or fold.

Your example of pocket T is a good one to consider. Why are you folding that? Because it puts you all in? What position is raising pre-flop? Most of the time pocket T in my opinion should be good enough to call. Just as an example from a tournament that I played today... I won with pocket 7 because villain was chasing a straight. Had I folded to his first bet I would lost over 4 K in chips, instead I won almost 8 K.

popstani · Dec 17, 2019

They push all in on you, because you’re to tight, and that strategy is the best against people play like you. Sometimes you have to take risk of calling with 10 10, or go all in. Final goal in micros is to go on FT where is bigger money. Sometimes you will lose, sometimes you will win. Buy the way, you have your buy in back, then you need to go for the FT, and the win

Criminal Bizzy · Dec 17, 2019

fundiver199 said:
To put it short, to win you need to be willing to die, when odds are in your favour. And yes it sucks to jam A5 from BTN with 13BB and get snapped by someone in the blinds, who woke up with KK. But you are still going to win 1/3 of the time, and much more often he fold, and you just increased your stack 20% uncontested.

Very well said! To put it in perspective for OP.

Today the blinds went up so much after I just won a pot that I lost 4 k in the BB and then it went up after the button passed me. As the blinds were coming back, I was looking at 3k BB ante and 3k BB. I looked down at QTo and shoved with my little stack of 12 k. Unfortunately someone woke up with pocket Q but another person who called would have completely whiffed and I could have potentially won. It was just bad timing that someone woke up with a hand.

NeoBandit · Dec 20, 2019

I wouldn't say i' tight maybe a little loose

NeoBandit said:
I play Micro tournaments because that is my level at this time. I have no problem being patient with people and waiting for my spots to get good hands. I have pretty much mastered that and can get itm in a tournament. It is after itm that i am having a problem with the players raising really high and going all in. I just finished a $2.20 and won $5.50 because watching these players betting really high and going all in all the time drives me crazy. You don't know if they have a good hand or not. the BB was 4000 these guys Top 15 in this game there where 3 of us at the table would bet 35000 and just go up from there. My problem here is that watching these guys do this drives me nuts and I go on tilt. I know that i need to tighten up at this time and only play premium hands because of them doing this. But It drives me crazy to see these guys this and getting bigger and bigger stacks while my either stays the same or slowly get smaller. If i can get over this somehow I could get to the final table. I have gotten over some of the problems causing me not to get into late stages of the game and now i need help to get over this. How do you guys deal with watching these guys do this and what do you do to not be driven crazy by this. I often have to throw hands away like 10 10 because these guys put me all in and I don't want to risk it. but after a while it drives me to take foolish risks that i shouldn't Any advice for overcoming this. thanks guys

I wouldn't say i'm too tight maybe a little loose. I play good hands I usually will be a big stack by late stage of the game. It seems that no matter what hand i play these guys will play K 2o and end up with two pair or play 92o and end up with two pair or even a full house. I can have AA or KK or k10s and still loose. I will have 50-150 big blinds than loose it all to these small stacks that will play 92o and win. I will have AA they will have 55 and end up with a set. Not sure what i am doing wrong. Often wondering why or how this happens night after night on ACR. I did come in first the other day in a $500 tourney. But this happens every night that I play. Just makes me angry and want to stop playing. any advice for this. I know I am doing something wrong. Maybe I need to pick better spots even with great hands and so so hands.

Luvulongtime99 · Dec 20, 2019

You have to get it in thinner pre to steal blinds to keep you alive long enough for a decent hand to come your way. I fought this for many years but now feel my next step is to work on more top 3's.

greatgame230 · Dec 21, 2019

the only advice is to have patience and wait for a good hand is everything there is no other way, do not despair for these players to the contrary they are the ones that can give you a good stack and in the end maybe the tournament

HaroldHouse · Dec 21, 2019

Learn to change gears and take risk. Go for the win not the cash. The money usually is in the top 3. So going out 20th or 10th is little difference. Study shove fold charts and maybe flop zillow if you have it and go over some frequent sittuations. Like the 10s in different positions against 1 , 2 and 3 players with different range %s. So you learn when its profitable to shove or call and you dont have to sweat it. And dont be result oriented but make correct decisions over and over and you will be much more profitable over time.
Good Luck.

fundiver199 · Dec 21, 2019

NeoBandit said:
It seems that no matter what hand i play these guys will play K 2o and end up with two pair or play 92o and end up with two pair or even a full house. I can have AA or KK or k10s and still loose.

Focusing on bad beats will bring you nowhere. Everyone suffer bad beats, but nobody is always unlucky, so they are not the reason for a lack of results. Sure it can take a while to reach "the long term", but online it is certainly possible.

Instead you need to focus your attention of those spots, where you could have gone different ways. Analyse hands, you played, maybe share some in the forum. Also observe, what other good players in your game do, and copy it, if it makes sense.

pokerdebit · Dec 21, 2019

You have to be patient
these guys usually end up going broke
just wait
and play your card that yo find will have a good win

xrhstos · Dec 21, 2019

You should keep on playing your poker.
Surely late stages of a tournament feel more important than early ones but the goal remains the same, increasing your stack and winning the tournament.
If there are players at your table who play loosely preflop, try to induce action from them with your premiums and they will pay you off.
Also holdings like TT increase in value if your opponents are shoving any pocket pair.

KozakAlex · Dec 21, 2019

Yes. This game is very difficult to sustain. But then it's nice to see such a player capitulate. I sometimes answer, unless of course I have a lot more chips. Unfortunately this kills poker as a strategy game. It all comes down to luck. Usually these guys are maddening, but it happens that they help to collect a good Bank for a high place in the tournament. It is necessary to wait and catch a good pair of cormannoy or wait for AK. It is important to remember that there can be no poker without risk.

Poker Orifice · Dec 21, 2019

It's difficult to give you any real sound advice without knowing what exactly you're currently doing.
I can assume you're too tight with opening ranges... or I could assume you're too loose... or perhaps you don't look for spots to 3-bet allin over LP steals? Who knows? Point being... we don't and quite possibly you don't either (meaning.. perhaps you don't recognize 'spots' in your own game as it feels completely normal for you, whereas for me hearing your thought process it might be totally foreign to me... or maybe I completely relate??).

My best advice would be to post up some HH's for analysis from late stages of the game.
Another piece of advice might be to pick up Vol.1 & 2 of the series "Winning Poker Tournaments - One Hand At a Time". It's a tad outdated but I'm sure many of the concepts in it would be helpful & reading how some 'winning' poker players 'think' while playing will also be extremely helpful.

teebahnoo · Dec 25, 2019

Chances to open-raise?

The OP described the situation as being (usually) a very active table. So, when do you actually get the chance to open-raise and not be too tight? Maybe in EP, otherwise most of the times is a calling or raising question, not opening. And in both cases you need hands from the top of the range, therefore the tightness. The only winning situation I experienced is to have planets aligned so that in the very few cases I get the opportunity to participate in the pot someone shoves with worse hand AND also loses (which even more rare).

I'm talking here about the real situation OP describes not what the poker manual says should happen.

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How to deal with late stage in micro tournaments?

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